Going to Edinburgh University - good idea?

[Motherofgirl]

So I have a daughter who has Edinburgh high on her list of possible universities. We're in Scotland, so the choice for her is limited (if she doesn't want to pay English uni fees).
She is questioning her sexuality, and my fear is that she would gravitate towards the LGBT group and would very soon come to believe herself a man or perhaps more likely non-binary, and start the transition process. I've read about that group on another thread on here, and it seems to be very extreme, as does the university generally. My DD, despite my best efforts, is currently sympathetic to trans beliefs, and that can only get worse I think.
Should I try to dissuade her from Edinburgh? And if so, then how?! Does it really make much difference which university you go to, or are they all going down the same path, so that in a while there'll be no real difference between them?
I hate to think that going to university could end up wrecking her future.
What's happening in other families?

[LizzieBirmingham]

It’s her choice, and you would do her a huge disservice to steer her away from a world-leading university for fear of her being exposed to beliefs you don’t agree with, particularly when she doesn’t even share your views.

I also think you’ll be hard pressed to find a university anywhere in the country with an LGBT society which isn’t trans-inclusive.

Your daughter is her own person with her own thoughts and her own values. You have to respect that and let her follow her path.

[askmeagainin5]

@LizzieBirmingham

It’s her choice, and you would do her a huge disservice to steer her away from a world-leading university for fear of her being exposed to beliefs you don’t agree with, particularly when she doesn’t even share your views.

I also think you’ll be hard pressed to find a university anywhere in the country with an LGBT society which isn’t trans-inclusive.

Your daughter is her own person with her own thoughts and her own values. You have to respect that and let her follow her path.

Nothing to add because @LizzieBirmingham has summed up my thoughts perfectly!

[OvaHere]

I understand your worries. I have the son equivalent of your daughter although fortunately Uni for him won't be for another 4 years.

Edinburgh Uni is a hotbed of gender ideology but others aren't that different so I think decisions have to be made on the strength of the course offered.

Unfortunately all we can do is talk to our children about difficult topics and our concerns but ultimately they need freedom of choice to study wherever they choose.

[HopeClearwater]

Let her aim high.
My son is at a Russell Group university in England and it’s just as bad. The universities have been captured. Look at Selina Todd at Oxford - she needs security when she gives her lectures.
Don’t forget, without the internet none of this would have happened. The stuff is out there without having to go anywhere near a university.

[Justhadathought]

It will be the same pretty much anywhere........at any university.

[Justhadathought]

I also think you’ll be hard pressed to find a university anywhere in the country with an LGBT society which isn’t trans-inclusive

That is one way way of viewing it.

Yet, if you look at the bookshops which serve our universities; Blackwell's for instance, they do not include classical feminist texts in their 'Gender Studies' sections. So certain types of feminist text, including many lesbian friendly texts, are most definitely not included

I mentioned this at my local branch of Blackwell's, and was told they'd "speak to the LGBT officer" about it. young lesbians have little to no access to books which deal with much of the history of the women's movement

[LizzieBirmingham]

When I studied English literature at Edinburgh as a young bisexual there were plenty of classical feminist and lesbian-friendly texts on the syllabus. Do you have a copy of a more recent reading list? Would be interesting to see if / how it has changed.

[SuperLoudPoppingAction]

Audre lorde was definitely in Blackwells in Edinburgh the last time I looked.

I work with students there and haven't noticed it being worse than anywhere else. And they didn't cancel Julie Bindel when the societies kicked off- they upped security (thank goodness).

However, I study at qmu and prefer it as it's a smaller campus and there's a focus on (actual) social justice.

[zzizzer]

Honestly the ideology is everywhere and universities are pushing it hard all Iver the place. I wonder if you could try talking to your daughter in advance?

[Motherofgirl]

I see the MNHQ have deleted both my legitimate concerns and my highly relevant quote from a current student, who is a lesbian and is having a terrible time, excluded from any kind of support and surrounded by aggression and hostility.
I've also seen an account (can't remember which university it refers to) of a young lesbian, happy in her skin, who started university, joined the LBGT group, was persuaded that she must actually be trans and had a double masectomy, went on medication, etc. That's what I'm scared might happen. The rest is bad enough.
I hope this post is deemed ok - can't see why not?

[Motherofgirl]

The accounts are here: www.gcacademianetwork.org/#

[peak2021]

Like some others on this thread, I wonder if Edinburgh is any different from many other universities?

[Justhadathought]

When I studied English literature at Edinburgh as a young bisexual there were plenty of classical feminist and lesbian-friendly texts on the syllabus. Do you have a copy of a more recent reading list? Would be interesting to see if / how it has changed

I did a 'Women's studies' module, in the 1980's, as part of my degree and we read all sorts. I'm not sure what is on the 'Gender Studies' syllabus these days - but you'll find nothing remotely critical of gender on the shelves at the Liverpool university branch of Blackwell's ( & not even in Waterstones, I've looked. They are overwhelmingly stocked with trans promoting narratives). So, no Sheila Jeffreys, for a start.

At my local independent bookshop ( A long standing women's co-operative), some trans activists actually went in , shop-lifted some gender critical, but classic, feminist texts, and then burned them; posting the photos on facebook

[JaninaDuszejko]

Not sure which of the talk guidelines I'm suppose to have broken there .

So, to paraphrase: Stealing and burning books is not the way to convince others you are right. OP, find an older and wiser lesbian to mentor your daughter and teach her that her healthy female body is perfect the way it is.

[morningtoncrescent62]

I'm so glad both my DDs, one of whom is a lesbian, were well into their 20s before transgender ideology made its way into schools and universities. As others have said, I expect most LGBTQ+ university groups feature compulsory transgenderism - they'll say they're "trans-inclusive" but what that means is that no biological woman is allowed to consider herself same-sex rather than same-gender attracted. I can't imagine your daughter having access to any lesbian groups and spaces as we'd have understood them just a few years ago. In that, I don't suppose Edinburgh is worse than anywhere else.

My observation (I live locally and I have friends who work at the various Edinburgh universities) is that the 'posher' universities have more of a problem. Queen Margaret University just down the road from Edinburgh Uni seems much more down-to-earth and the students are probably more bothered about earning enough money to continue their studies than whether someone will use the wrong pronoun about them. So there may be less of a chance there that your daughter would find herself getting sucked into the kind of friendship group that you're worried about, OP, but it's a much less prestigious university and may not do the course she wants as it has nothing like the range of opportunities as Edinburgh Uni. The same might be said about Napier.

Ultimately, though, what's going to happen will happen and your daughter will have to encounter these ideas for herself and work through them. There are probably risks wherever she goes.

[fatblackcatspaw]

I do know of someone whose friends daughter a lesbian went there and her treatment was such that threats of suing etc were bandied about. She was bullied badly I gather. I can find out more.

[fatblackcatspaw]

@Justhadathought

When I studied English literature at Edinburgh as a young bisexual there were plenty of classical feminist and lesbian-friendly texts on the syllabus. Do you have a copy of a more recent reading list? Would be interesting to see if / how it has changed

I did a 'Women's studies' module, in the 1980's, as part of my degree and we read all sorts. I'm not sure what is on the 'Gender Studies' syllabus these days - but you'll find nothing remotely critical of gender on the shelves at the Liverpool university branch of Blackwell's ( & not even in Waterstones, I've looked. They are overwhelmingly stocked with trans promoting narratives). So, no Sheila Jeffreys, for a start.

At my local independent bookshop ( A long standing women's co-operative), some trans activists actually went in , shop-lifted some gender critical, but classic, feminist texts, and then burned them; posting the photos on facebook

wtf!!!

[Daca]

Bumping this to urge you all to read the latest testimonies on the gender critical academics website. More keep coming in. Really chilling.

//www.gcacademianetwork.org/#

[SkeeterP]

Just to point out the Edinburgh has some very brave GC academics who to stick their head right over the parapet. Probably more so than in other universities.

Let’s see what happens when Stonewall start losing their grip on universities.

[morningtoncrescent62]

Just to point out the Edinburgh has some very brave GC academics who to stick their head right over the parapet. Probably more so than in other universities.

That's true. Lucy Hunter Blackburn and Kath Murray from MBM are both Edinburgh University academics. You can see Lucy being awesome earlier this week here, giving evidence to the Justice Committee about why the Hate Crime bill risks criminalising women who talk about women's rights: www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/justice-committee-february-22-2021
There's also this piece on defending academic freedom by Shereen Benjamin, another Edinburgh University academic, on the WPUK site: womansplaceuk.org/2021/02/22/defending-academic-freedom/