Half of men have unwanted sexual experiences

[RedPaperLantern]

Guardian article

Doesn’t surprise me. I think men have been shamed into silence by their abusers for a long time over this. And if that culture of silence breaks down it will greatly help all male and female victims of abuse.

[StillWeRise]

My first thought was to agree with you, it's awful if men don't feel able to report sexual violence, and boys can't report abuse they suffer as children. I think this came up when that multiple rapist was tried and found guilty in Manchester.
Then I read the linked article, and find they are talking about 'people who identify as men'.
This is exactly the kind of crap that is going to make it harder to help male survivors of sexual violence. We can't even bloody count them apparently.
Also, maybe, some of those victims are female people who thought they could identify out of their higher risk of sexual assault but then found out they couldn't.
If the research is as crap as the Guardian is reporting it to be, we will never know. What a wasted opportunity.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Then I read the linked article, and find they are talking about 'people who identify as men'.

I wonder if that's just the guardian putting it's own spin on the story, as they do with articles about women. A very quick look at Mankind UKs website suggest it focuses on males - as is perfectly reasonable - and not 'identify as'.

That's bye the bye. An end to all victims of abuse being shamed is overdue. The shame should lie entirely with the perpetrators. However, I'm not entirely sure this board is the most appropriate place for this particular aspect.

[aliasundercover]

Have any of you ever met anyone who 'identifies as a man'? I think I might have met one individual who possibly might.

[NoSuchThingAsTooMuch]

The fact is, men and boys don't feel able to talk about any abuse they've suffered due to patriarchal, hypermasculine standards of behaviour. If they've been abused by a woman, they should be happy about it. If they've been abused by a man, they should be ashamed and maybe they are gay how awful, etc.

It's fucked up.

[StillAWoman2]

Agree it’s essential to know what sex they are talking about.

If it’s females identifying as men then that seems relevant for here.

If it’s males then that is just as serious and as mother of young men my personal view is it’s a problem that is worthy of just as much attention however I don’t believe this is the board for that discussion

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

If it does in fact refer to actual men I'm quite surprised by that number! HALF of all men? Blimey.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

I’m not really surprised to be honest. Around half the men in my life that I have been close to as a friend, girlfriend or partner have confided to me either they were sexually abused as a child or sexually assaulted as an adult.
My first job the female manager was sexually harrassing and assaulting my fellow co-worker. I ended up reporting her and all that happened was they moved him to a different office and she somehow found out I had reported her and she got me sacked by making up fake disciplinary things like me refusing to do various duties because I thought they were beneath me, insubordinate behaviour, disappearing on two hour lunches. It was a poison pen situation. But for the best, I didn’t realise how oppressive working there had been until the day I walked out and felt free of her.

[Melroses]

Historically, there was a lot of stuff went on at boys' schools which would now be considered sexually abusive.

[peak2021]

I'd be interested to know how much of this is men abusing men (or boys) and how much is women abusing men (or boys). I'd expect it to be more the first not the second, especially given what is known about boys schools historically.

[notyourhandmaid]

I think the schools/childhood stuff is a big part of this.

The Guardian spin of 'identifying as' is such a distraction, because it does raise the question of whether this is a feminist issue - involving young women in particular - or whether it's about men's issues, which feminists may be sympathetic to but aren't necessarily going to be taking on (the workload is large enough as it is).

I'm really glad there are male-specific resources available for those who need them, and who will understand the particular shame of being a man who has suffered from this.

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Hang on. Never take shit in Newspapers at face value. This study of 1000 men, commisioned by a charity who deals with Male victims of Domestic Violence. If this is a study of the people accessing the service, which it likely is, it is self selecting. They didn't just survey 1000 random men. It is appauling that any man should be abused in any way, but this is shody journalism. The headline should be Half of men who call access a domestic abuse charity are sexually abused. Rather different spin. The charity itself has a stats page which says 2.5% of all men.

[17thEarlOfOxford]

AdHominemNonSequitur - good spot! That 2.5% is for a single year, not for a lifetime, but since their figures suggest male rates are half female rates, a decent guess for lifetime rates for men might be something like one in six.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@peak2021

I'd be interested to know how much of this is men abusing men (or boys) and how much is women abusing men (or boys). I'd expect it to be more the first not the second, especially given what is known about boys schools historically.

Well it’s probably 90% men and 10% women abusing men/boys if you by conviction rates.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@AdHominemNonSequitur

Hang on. Never take shit in Newspapers at face value. This study of 1000 men, commisioned by a charity who deals with Male victims of Domestic Violence. If this is a study of the people accessing the service, which it likely is, it is self selecting. They didn't just survey 1000 random men. It is appauling that any man should be abused in any way, but this is shody journalism. The headline should be Half of men who call access a domestic abuse charity are sexually abused. Rather different spin. The charity itself has a stats page which says 2.5% of all men.

But many who are sexually abused are not also domestically abused as an adult. I’m afraid that a sample of 2.5% of men each year calling a charity that have experienced both sexual abuse and domestic abuse is not really relevant or a comparable statistic.

[dolorsit]

The Guardian do have form for rewriting research which references sex as gender or "identify as".

I remember them doing it with a piece of research that made no sense if you used gender so I checked the original press release and it very clearly stated sex.

The Guardian reporting of the statistics is also a bit off. The headline states 50% but the story quotes three different forms of abuse which together add up to 50%. It is very unlikely that there is no crossover between the three groups.

This is really bad reporting of a subject that deserves better.

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

@PlanDeRaccordement I am not sure I understand your point. My point was that it was alluded that the 1000 men interviewed were ones who phoned in to the support helpline for male victims of abuse. Therefore 100% would have suffered abuse and 50% of those cases reported some form of sexual abuse. My overriding point though was, like with the recent article about the sudden increase in the number of women suddenly committing sexual and violent offenses, or the discredited vaccinations cause autism issue, was that taking as gospel a statistic second hand from a a journalist is dangerous and leads to false information in the public domain. However I will contact the charity directly and clarify the study methodology.

[jj1968]

@peak2021

I'd be interested to know how much of this is men abusing men (or boys) and how much is women abusing men (or boys). I'd expect it to be more the first not the second, especially given what is known about boys schools historically.

There's been some work done on this by feminist researchers in the US if anyone is interested: www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

Not really looking to get into a debate about it, just thought it might be of interest.

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

Mankind UK research Feb 21
Savanta ComRes was commissioned by Mankind UK in Feb 2021 to explore the prevalence of non-consensual sexual experiences among UK men. They interviewed 1,011 UK male adults aged 18+ online from 5-7 February 2021. They cohort were representative of population by age, region, and social grade. Savanta ComRes is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

The Poll revealed that of the men surveyed:

16% have or 1 in 6 have experienced a sexual crime
this rises to 50% when you also include other unwanted sexual experiences covered by the Equalities Act which are not necessarily crimes such as ‘unwanted sexual innuendo or flirting’ or ‘teasing or body shaming specific to genitals’.
9% have been raped or assaulted by penetration
10% have had sexual images shared without consent
14% have been coerced or pressured into sexual activity
21% have taken part in sexual activity with an adult while under the legal age of consent.

16% not 50% (unless you include teasing , inapproriate flirting and comments about genitalia) so a sensationalist headline, but quite shocking never the less.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@AdHominemNonSequitur

Mankind UK research Feb 21
Savanta ComRes was commissioned by Mankind UK in Feb 2021 to explore the prevalence of non-consensual sexual experiences among UK men. They interviewed 1,011 UK male adults aged 18+ online from 5-7 February 2021. They cohort were representative of population by age, region, and social grade. Savanta ComRes is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

The Poll revealed that of the men surveyed:

16% have or 1 in 6 have experienced a sexual crime
this rises to 50% when you also include other unwanted sexual experiences covered by the Equalities Act which are not necessarily crimes such as ‘unwanted sexual innuendo or flirting’ or ‘teasing or body shaming specific to genitals’.
9% have been raped or assaulted by penetration
10% have had sexual images shared without consent
14% have been coerced or pressured into sexual activity
21% have taken part in sexual activity with an adult while under the legal age of consent.

16% not 50% (unless you include teasing , inapproriate flirting and comments about genitalia) so a sensationalist headline, but quite shocking never the less.

Thank you for taking time to do the research and finding how they inflated 16% to 50%. I agreed with your point about journalists just plucking numbers and mis-reporting them either on purpose to be sensationalist or out of incompetence. It is very frustrating. I just didn’t think that initial 2.5% number you posted was comparable. Good detective work.