Q&A thread for New Posters

[CharlieParley]

Welcome to the FWR board and welcome to the debate. If you're new here and have been told your questions might be better on their own thread, but you're not comfortable starting your own, then please feel free to ask your question here.

I'll try my best to answer and some of our other regulars might pop in too.

[Winesalot]

Charlie! You rock. What a great idea. Thank you.

[DialSquare]

I second what a good idea this is. Is it worth adding the break it down for me thread for additional resource?

[CharlieParley]

Yes, that's an excellent idea!

[WarOnWomen]

Brilliant idea.

I think links would be better for specific questions. The break it down thread can be a bit overwhelming.

[umbel]

Great idea! How about some abbreviation/terminology explanations too (though there are of course several that can no longer be mentioned)?

I’ll start off with:
GC - gender critical
FWR - Feminism and Women's Rights (previous name of this board, now Feminist Chat)

[testingmitb]

Ooooh, I have a question, but I'm not new in these parts, just don't post much beyond indignant one-liners.

What is sea-lioning?

[Winesalot]

Sea lioning as per wiki

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".

[Xanthangum]

"Sealioning: a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity."

Sometimes though it is hard to tell if someone is deliberately being obtuse with the intention of sealioning, or genuinely trying to understand the other persons point of view but failing to "get it."

[Xanthangum]

Sorry cross-post!

[DialSquare]

I do agree that it can be overwhelming WarOnWomen but I do think it’s handy to have it on a new thread like this for additional reading should anyone want to.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

[TheLaughingGenome]

This is a really good idea.👍

When I first ventured onto FWR (as was) I'd have appreciated this a lot not made a tit of myself.

[IvyTwines]

@Xanthangum

"Sealioning: a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity."

Sometimes though it is hard to tell if someone is deliberately being obtuse with the intention of sealioning, or genuinely trying to understand the other persons point of view but failing to "get it."

I haven't heard that word for it before, but when I see people on Twitter repeatedly asking women to describe just exactly why they feel vulnerable in mixed sex toilets I'm immediately reminded of the heavy breather phone calls we used to get in pre-1471 days.

[Datun]

Sea lioning is a really odd one and it took me a while to get my head around it. Because asking questions is good, right?

Also, what kind of satisfaction can you get out of asking pointless questions? It's a weird one.

Nonetheless, it definitely happens.

Often with a name change, to boot. So someone will ask silly questions designed to be a bit provocative, get all the answers, and then a few weeks later name change and go through the whole bloody process again.

It's a tedious time waster. (And I still think it's a weird way to attention seek/derail).

[Datun]

I haven't heard that word for it before, but when I see people on Twitter repeatedly asking women to describe just exactly why they feel vulnerable in mixed sex toilets I'm immediately reminded of the heavy breather phone calls we used to get in pre-1471 days.

Ugh. Yes indeed. Thoroughly enjoying women's discomfort.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Sea lioning is a really odd one and it took me a while to get my head around it. Because asking questions is good, right?

It took me fecking ages to figure out wtf this had to do with actual sea lions before I saw the comic strip and realised it was a completely random choice of critter.

I do kind of feel as if the poor sea lions have been a bit maligned though.

[Winesalot]

wondermark.com/1k62/

Here is the strip that started it all. I love it!!!

[MaudTheInvincible]

Ha! I was just going to post that very cartoon

[Thelnebriati]

I haven't heard that word for it before, but when I see people on Twitter repeatedly asking women to describe just exactly why they feel vulnerable in mixed sex toilets I'm immediately reminded of the heavy breather phone calls we used to get in pre-1471 days.

Yes, and that's why forcing women to disclose discomfort or abuse to get the services we should have by default is borderline abusive.
Forcing women to disclose mimics abusive behaviour, it mimics the power structure of abuse. Women shouldn't have to ask for what's our by right and we shouldn't have to disclose abuse to get it.

[Helen8220]

Thanks for setting this up!

Here’s a question I was thinking about last night - I have met a few non-binary people who I can’t tell what their ‘biological sex’ is. I don’t think it’s my business to ask about their medical history/genitalia. I am happy to use the pronouns they ask me to use.

There will obviously be people in their lives who know what biological sex characteristics they have - those involved in their medical treatment, sexual partners. There will also be certain authorities that have the information, given the law currently requires people’s biological sex to be registered (but one could dispute if that should be the case).

In terms of how that person moves through their everyday life - how people refer to them, what spaces they’re allowed into - what do you think should happen?

[TheLaughingGenome]

How do you know they're 'non-binary', out of interest?

[JoodyBlue]

I think I may have been guilty in the past of sealioning. Because in a discussion I kept bringing the conversation back to "what is a woman?" In discussion with a TRA the answer is "anyone who feels like woman" and the rejoiner is "what does a woman feel like?" etc. The question is foundational which is why I kept asking it. In the end the person I was "conversing" with called me a curious bigot and flounced off. Do you reckon I was sealioning there guys?

[JoodyBlue]

Also would the Staniland question count as sealioning under that description?

[Helen8220]

“ TheLaughingGenome

How do you know they're 'non-binary', out of interest?”

Either because they’ve explicitly stated it, or because they’ve asked people to use they/them pronouns. I should explain this is generally in the context of LGBT+ events I've attended in my role as co-chair of my workplace LGBT+ network

[Datun]

@Helen8220

Thanks for setting this up!

Here’s a question I was thinking about last night - I have met a few non-binary people who I can’t tell what their ‘biological sex’ is. I don’t think it’s my business to ask about their medical history/genitalia. I am happy to use the pronouns they ask me to use.

There will obviously be people in their lives who know what biological sex characteristics they have - those involved in their medical treatment, sexual partners. There will also be certain authorities that have the information, given the law currently requires people’s biological sex to be registered (but one could dispute if that should be the case).

In terms of how that person moves through their everyday life - how people refer to them, what spaces they’re allowed into - what do you think should happen?

You see, to me, that question has no answer. It's a hypothetical person, in a hypothetical situation, that doesn't require a solution. Albeit, a completely hypothetical one.

It's irrelevant to women's rights and the policy of sex segregation.

It's a question that is pointless as a question, and the answer would be equally pointless.