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Sunday Independent (Ireland) - Abigail Shrier review

(25 Posts)
notyourhandmaid Sun 17-Jan-21 15:43:50

www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/girls-who-would-be-boys-the-rise-in-teen-gender-dysphoria-39975855.html

"Shrier questions the reception these girls and young women get when they first apply the word "trans" to themselves. She points out that being trans has no scientific markers. It can't be measured or analysed. It depends on an individual's say-so, and can begin with statements such as: feeling different, not fitting in, feeling uncomfortable in your body.
Her point, and it's a fair one, is that there is scarcely a teenage girl alive who won't answer yes to those. Those feelings are the fundamental condition of adolescence."

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sashagabadon Sun 17-Jan-21 16:02:06

I’m listening to this at the moment on my commute to work. It is very well written and quite jaw dropping in parts. It should be a must read for all high school senior management here in the U.K. particularly all girl schools.

ValancyRedfern Sun 17-Jan-21 17:25:05

So glad it highlights that the girls are mainly white and middle class. This is something I've noticed right from the outset, particularly as it is exactly the same profile as the typical girl with an eating disorder. I was that white middle class girl with an eating disorder, so I recognise the type. I teach in a school of mainly black teen girls, and ROGD has not hit us in the same way at all.

Abhannmor Sun 17-Jan-21 17:53:28

It is a very long and positive review. Which is great. But the trans activists have started to complain to the Irish Independent. Please email editor@independent.ie to support Emily Hourican , the writer!

XXSex Sun 17-Jan-21 18:14:14

Just bought the paper. Glad to see this being covered here. And yes I’ll write in support too.

ArabellaScott Sun 17-Jan-21 20:11:07

placemarking, will write tomorrow

Abhannmor Sun 17-Jan-21 20:13:10

XXSex

Just bought the paper. Glad to see this being covered here. And yes I’ll write in support too.

Great. Because the tra seem to be on the case very quickly indeed! Really cheered me up to read this - Ireland is not a lost cause just yet.

XXSex Sun 17-Jan-21 22:42:16

Ooh- where are they? FB/Twitter - can you link please?

UtopiaPlanitia Mon 18-Jan-21 16:46:32

GRMA @Abhannmor for the suggestion to write to the Editor of The Independent in support of Emily Hourican’s review. I’ve just sent them an email complimenting both Emily and the Editor for an interesting article, and adding that I’d be interested in reading an interview with Abigail Shrier (as well as future articles on the topic) should they publish such.

I also advised that I try to read widely on subjects of social importance and so would be interested in any future coverage of this issue from a wider range of viewpoints than usually seen in Irish media at present. I mentioned that Irish society is becoming increasingly aware of the large numbers of girls suffering from GD and that it’s an important subject that need to be publicly discussed and debated in our media.

Here’s hoping positive emails to the paper have a good effect smile

notyourhandmaid Tue 19-Jan-21 17:10:37

Seeing the deranged responses on social media...not sure they know what 'writers' unions' are.

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XXSex Tue 19-Jan-21 21:06:01

Well done for writing. I think I’ll do the same. The more sunlight and the more education the better

NotTerfNorCis Wed 20-Jan-21 08:34:35

Some bizarre stories on social media about the book.

For example, that Shrier recommends sending transboys to a horse farm with no internet - in fact there's from one case study where the parents sent their daughter away, and she recovered from her dysphoria.

Responses to that post:

'Kids will die because of this damn book.'

'I just reported her ad tweet for her book for hate speech.'

'This is so disturbing & harmful to trans youth. Thank you for alerting us to this!'

EdgeOfACoin Wed 20-Jan-21 08:42:59

For example, that Shrier recommends sending transboys to a horse farm with no internet - in fact there's from one case study where the parents sent their daughter away, and she recovered from her dysphoria.

These people haven't read the book. Shrier advocates getting teenagers off the internet and away from social media pressure. That's good advice.

As you say, she interviews a family where a transboy spent some time with relatives on a horse farm. Away from the internet and her social circle, the transboy desisted.

If critics have to caricature Shrier's writing in order to show how terrible it is, that says more about the critics than the book.

sashagabadon Wed 20-Jan-21 10:30:57

It is a really thought provoking listen. I would recommend as an audio book. Not sure if Shrier herself is narrating it herself but whoever is the narrator is very good too.

sashagabadon Wed 20-Jan-21 10:35:08

And yes to the horse farm story. The horse farm isn’t the relevant bit. The point is away getting away from the influence of the internet and you tube etc
I think all parents would agree this is good advice for young people for all sorts of things including advice to parents ourselves!!

Abhannmor Wed 20-Jan-21 10:38:38

I got a nice reply to my email from the Sunday Independent. Things are shifting ...

UtopiaPlanitia Wed 20-Jan-21 12:02:26

I also got a reply from The Independent’s Features Editor saying, ‘The reaction to the review confirms just how important it is for newspapers such as ourselves to continue to publish and stand over articles on this and other difficult topics where robust debate is so essential.’

I was also thanked for my suggestions regarding an interview with Abigail and for more articles on topics like this.

I found that quite heartening smile

notyourhandmaid Thu 21-Jan-21 19:50:38

The book is so incredibly careful to be clear about how it's not going 'no one is really transgender!' but to focus in on a recent phenomenon pertaining to teenage girls.

I have yet to hear a legitimate argument being made for why this one group has had such a surge in transgender-identifying in the past ten years from trans rights activists. It would be interesting if one could be offered - because it would need to engage with how women are represented and treated by and within the world. But it ain't coming.

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Freespeecher Fri 22-Jan-21 10:06:17

I think it's telling that Shrier normally writes about economics so, for her, it's all about the data. Makes it hard for those whose opinions are more emotionally based to disprove what she's saying.

Her book was also reviewed in the current Private Eye - only the second time I've seen them give a non-negative review (first was Paul O'Grady's autobiography, seemingly on the grounds that he was at least self-aware).

Kettlingur Fri 22-Jan-21 10:37:42

These people haven't read the book

They never do, do they? It's all "block and stay safe!" because they're so scared of the counterargument making sense.

OoopsIDidIt Sun 24-Jan-21 22:27:44

I don't have the link/photos but from a quick glance I think most of the Readers' letters today were about this review and there was a good bit of support published.

miri1985 Sun 24-Jan-21 22:42:30

OoopsIDidIt

I don't have the link/photos but from a quick glance I think most of the Readers' letters today were about this review and there was a good bit of support published.

Don't know about in print but online they published 3 letters in favour and 2 against. I may be biased but I thought the letters praising the reviews were much better written the ones against the review just imply that the book is bad and therefore undeserving of review, it must be really easy to say somethings been debunked and not bother to give any examples (https://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/omalley-ended-mortal-sin-40003695.html)

miri1985 Sun 24-Jan-21 22:43:20

www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/omalley-ended-mortal-sin-40003695.html

Hopefully that shows up as a clicky link

SarahGoode Sun 24-Jan-21 22:46:58

The Sunday Independent have been commendable giving attention to this issue. The Irish Independent have been ok. The Irish Times have been abominable

Menstrualcycledisplayteam Sun 24-Jan-21 22:52:22

@miri1985, you might be biased but you're not wrong; the letters in support were much better.

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