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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans swimmer

33 replies

bringingonbackthegoodtimes · 09/01/2021 17:10

What would happen in the instance of a trans male swimmer and trunks?
Obviously I'm thinking at local club/amateur/hobby level not olympics as for reasons I doubt a trans man would be competing at that level.
But if we consider the female penis then we clearly acknowledge the male breast?
Am watching touch the wall on Netflix and it got me thinking

OP posts:

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Melroses · 09/01/2021 17:16

According to the old swimming guidelines (now withdrawn? ) they would have been persuaded to cover their manly chests up.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 09/01/2021 18:19

Yes. Funny that.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/01/2021 18:32

I'm pretty sure Man Friday (?) tested that?

SirSamuelVimes · 09/01/2021 18:43

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I'm pretty sure Man Friday (?) tested that?

They did. They were seen as women and treated accordingly.

Funny how sexism still holds on in the face of self identification, ain't it?

bringingonbackthegoodtimes · 09/01/2021 19:35

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I'm pretty sure Man Friday (?) tested that?

Oh yes I vaguely recall now.

I'm just increasingly becoming more and more agog at it all

OP posts:

TheGreatWave · 09/01/2021 19:58

Yes you can have a female penis which should be celebrated, but the pesky male breast needs to be hided away.

As old as time itself really.

bringingonbackthegoodtimes · 09/01/2021 20:21

Wondering about other sports where this may throw up issues
Diving
Ballet
Boxing
Or just life really, whenever a bloke can go Shirtless so too can the blokey boobs

OP posts:

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 10/01/2021 11:46

If biological males are allowed to go shirtless in certain places, it stands to reason that anyone identifying as male should too, if they choose? Otherwise it means they are not really accepted as males. If TW do not need to modify their body in any way to claim womanhood, neither should TM be lining up for double mastectomies.

DryHeave · 10/01/2021 11:52

I get so confused by the whole thing. Male nipples are acceptable, female nipples not. But when a TM has a double mastectomy, suddenly the nipples become acceptable. So is it the breast tissue that makes a female nipple a female nipple? And yet cleavage is acceptable?

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 10/01/2021 11:54

Unles they are in drag race, when they have to be coyly covered...

turkeyboots · 10/01/2021 11:54

I have wondered about this from a competitive swimmer pov. Even your small local teams have to follow FINAs rules for competition swimwear. Child safeguarding would mean we couldn't let a child or teen female swim topless, which pushes girls out. Boys rules mean they cannot wear a female style race suit, as it gives them a significant advantage and they were banned quickly when they came out.
So a MTF would have the advantages of size, height etc etc, plus the advantages of a full body tech suit. If anyone actually does it in competition, it will cause uproar.

Cailleach1 · 10/01/2021 13:08

After the women were chucked out of the Men's pool by the police wrt Man Friday, were men subsequently chucked out by police from the women's pool? Using men and women in their accurate sense to refer to human sex in adults.

If not, were the police being discriminatory and treating women differently under the law?

Cailleach1 · 10/01/2021 13:13

Would it cause uproar, turkey? Males won 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in the Olympics 800m women's final in Rio in 2016. I don't think the medals have been correctly given to the 4th, 5th and 6th competitors which were actually the fastest women in this women's event .

turkeyboots · 10/01/2021 13:53

Did they? That snuck under the radar. I'll look it up.

WhichOneOfUsIsCaving2 · 10/01/2021 13:56

Males won 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in the Olympics 800m women's final in Rio in 2016.

Is that the swimming or the running Cailleach?

Better still any chance of a link? First time I'm hearing this...

Cailleach1 · 10/01/2021 13:58

Sorry. Not swimming, Athletics.

My point is that I don't see why swimming would be different. Happening in cycling etc. Why would swimming be different?

turkeyboots · 10/01/2021 13:58

800m freestyle? Katie Ledecky won, and Jazz Carlin came second. Jazz is a GB swimmer and I've know people who have known her since she was a child. Both natal females.

turkeyboots · 10/01/2021 14:03

High level swimming is different as the advantages of a technical suit would make such a difference to times. Which is why full body mens suits are banned. It would become a technical swimsuit competition rather than a swimming one.
And swimming has been rife with child abuse scandals, it may be making swim governing bodies more cautious as they can't afford more scandals

Cailleach1 · 10/01/2021 14:03

www.olympicchannel.com/en/video/detail/women-s-800m-final-rio-2016-replays/

Males, which would have been discovered had they not discontinued genetic testing in 1998. 2002 was the first olympics without it. The only people it has discriminated against is women. If ambiguities were found for a few, further tests could have been done on them. As it is, all women are being robbed. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place on bodies which have obviously gone through male puberty.

Brilliant advance for women's sport!

Caaarrrl · 10/01/2021 14:15

Oh my god Cailleach1 thanks for the link. The three winners certainly did not appear to be physically on par with the other female competitors, did they? I am wording my response carefully.

WhichOneOfUsIsCaving2 · 10/01/2021 14:17

Thank you for the link Cailleach - I've just watched that race (for the first time as I'm not normally interested in sport) and I am fucking annoyed.

Bring on the next Olympics for more sunlight. It can't come soon enough.

This year?

Hoppinggreen · 10/01/2021 14:21

Bloody Hell that race video is shocking.
It’s just so blatant who has been a woman from birth and who hasn’t, totally different body shapes

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Jaxhog · 10/01/2021 14:43

If you look up the 3 winners on Wikipedia, they are ALL intersex with XY chromosomes and testosterone. No coincidence perhaps.

OhGodWhatTheHellNow · 10/01/2021 14:45

Yes, and if I recall correctly, the 'loser' who complained was villified. These competitors all have vsd of course, as opposed to self-ID, but even so what seemed apparent to the standard eyeball wasn't enough to create the outrage you would expect. At this point I'm not sure what would, as we already have had respected sports journalists (looking at you, Liew in the Independent) arguing that it is better for otherwiseknownasmen to see other otherwiseknownasmen on the women's podium than for women and girls to see other women and girls; empowering and kind, innit?

OhGodWhatTheHellNow · 10/01/2021 14:49

@Jaxhog

If you look up the 3 winners on Wikipedia, they are ALL intersex with XY chromosomes and testosterone. No coincidence perhaps.

Yes, isn't it amazing that individuals with such a rare performance enhancing condition, all ended up in their national athletics squads...

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