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Court verdict on puberty blockers won't affect Scottish children

(78 Posts)
theskyispink Thu 03-Dec-20 15:24:05

The only clinic in Scotland that can prescribe puberty blockers to children who are gender dysphoric will not change its protocols in the wake of a landmark court judgement in England that ruled children under 16 were not mature enough to give informed consent.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/court-verdict-puberty-blockers-wont-affect-scottish-children-3056057

OP’s posts: |
MichelleofzeResistance Thu 03-Dec-20 15:31:00

Well that will be an interesting one to watch play out.

highame Thu 03-Dec-20 15:35:46

They'll be sitting ducks

GrouchyKiwi Thu 03-Dec-20 15:38:27

I hope their procedures applying Gillick competence are robust already or they will be indeed sitting ducks.

GrouchyKiwi Thu 03-Dec-20 15:42:04

Also: referrals for 4 year olds! My DD1 told us she was a tiger for two years starting at age 4. What the fuck are those parents thinking?!

rogdmum Thu 03-Dec-20 15:45:40

Good grief. I thought they would be reasonable after they withdrew their pamphlet for young people after the puberty blockers info was changed by NHS England.

OhHolyJesus Thu 03-Dec-20 15:45:53

Well that clinic is going to get an influx of patients from E&W then.

When they can't cope they will be told they aren't doing a good enough job, it takes too long to get an appointment (even longer than before), etc...then the argument will follow that they need more clinics, and round and round we go.

Hopefully the law suits won't be too far away and this will press the pause button.

GrouchyKiwi Thu 03-Dec-20 15:48:05

It does say in that article that they don't accept referrals from England.

rogdmum Thu 03-Dec-20 15:50:11

I wonder how many parents will be put off going to Sandyford now. If you are in the slightest bit dubious I can’t see you taking your child there. Perhaps they will see a big drop in referrals.

PaleBlueMoonlight Thu 03-Dec-20 15:54:09

Its interesting that they don't say why they think Scottish children can consent, ie. where they think the court's reasoning is incorrect.

Apollo440 Thu 03-Dec-20 15:55:07

Well the Scots will have to fund a similar case then.

rogdmum Thu 03-Dec-20 16:01:33

PaleBlueMoonlight

Its interesting that they don't say why they think Scottish children can consent, ie. where they think the court's reasoning is incorrect.

Yes, exactly because surely the point of the court case was not the process up to the point of consent (dreadful though that is at the Tavi) but the consent part - I.e. it doesn’t matter how much counselling or info you get, you still can’t give consent for something that is effectively a big experiment.

highame Thu 03-Dec-20 16:03:53

I am sure this clinic wont just be able to state what they can and can't do with regards to Kiera Bells case. The highest court in these cases is the Supreme Court and I'm pretty sure the Scottish courts would use UK as precedence before any case getting that far. The UK court case was a judicial review.

Anyone with a claim or grievance against this clinic will have a bang on certain vicotry

PearPickingPorky Thu 03-Dec-20 16:06:18

Obviously Scottish children reach cognitive and psychosocial maturity about 6 years sooner than English children.

Cool.

Maybe that's why 4 year olds are being referred, as they are the equivalent of the English 10 year olds.

PaleBlueMoonlight Thu 03-Dec-20 16:07:02

Or why Scottish children are capable of consenting to lose of fertility and sexual function. Or why they disagree that consenting to PBs also requires consent to CSH.

GrouchyKiwi Thu 03-Dec-20 16:08:33

Anyone with a claim or grievance against this clinic will have a bang on certain vicotry
Yup, because if they're "functioning" like the Tavi did then they're not applying Gillick like they should be either. It does apply in Scotland.

Graffitiqueen Thu 03-Dec-20 16:14:09

rogdmum

I wonder how many parents will be put off going to Sandyford now. If you are in the slightest bit dubious I can’t see you taking your child there. Perhaps they will see a big drop in referrals.

I am hoping that in the wake of all this press, there will be a drop in referrals to gender clinics like there was in Sweden after that documentary.

AlizarinRed Thu 03-Dec-20 16:15:21

Scots 16 year olds can vote I think (independence lobby looking for votes )

GrouchyKiwi Thu 03-Dec-20 16:17:27

16 is the age of legal adulthood in Scotland, so that does make a difference.

yourhairiswinterfire Thu 03-Dec-20 16:17:50

GrouchyKiwi

Also: referrals for 4 year olds! My DD1 told us she was a tiger for two years starting at age 4. What the fuck are those parents thinking?!

My 3yo nephew is currently acting like a dog, but we don't make him shit in the garden.

I don't give a fuck what anyone says, if 4 year olds are being referred, it's because this is being deliberately put in their heads. This is not a normal thing for 4 year olds to be worrying about at all. This is down to the adults around them.

nauticant Thu 03-Dec-20 16:21:11

This is an interesting way to develop new income streams for a newly independent Scotland.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 03-Dec-20 16:22:48

I saw this, the only reason I can think for their position is that they already have a very robust process for determining competency, and therefore very rarely give puberty blockers? <hopeful>

ChazsBrilliantAttitude Thu 03-Dec-20 16:24:23

I wonder what their indemnity insurance will look like given the High Court ruling. It’s hard to ignore the precedent even if the too systems are different.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 03-Dec-20 16:24:56

Also, I was surprised their press release made no reference to the court case. I've oils have thought they'd at least offer a token "review of procedures" ...

Babdoc Thu 03-Dec-20 16:30:27

The SNP are Woke Central, and desperate to do the opposite to England whenever possible. They have been very hostile to their own GC members (Joanna Cherry et al) and I bet they will try to keep it “business as usual” for the pushers of puberty blockers in Scotland. They have sold out to the trans rights activists hook line and sinker. Child safeguarding is a much lesser priority.
One can only hope for a similar legal test case in the Scottish courts.

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