Page 2 | Irish women will be heard (trending)

(402 Posts)
GrainneMhaol Tue 24-Nov-20 19:12:34

Hi everyone. #WeWillBeHeard is trending on twitter in Ireland. It is in reponse to Amnesty International, the National Women's Council of Ireland and other major NGO's calling for people who "defend biology" or who are gender critical to be disenfranchised.

Their words: "..Let us say unequivocally that the statements of newly launched organisations that seek to defend biology or fight gender identity and expression do not represent the wider LGBTI+ community nor feminists in Ireland... We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs."

This is a thread with pictures and the hastag which is trending

twitter.com/TCDFFT/status/1331208440971137024?s=19

A response letter from The Countess didn't fight for this thecountessdidntfightforthis.com/we-will-be-heard/

And an archived copy of the original ridiculous letter they are replying to (usual tropes about being far right etc) archive.is/glPXl#selection-1561.0-1561.202

OP’s posts: |
BrassicaRabbit Tue 24-Nov-20 21:11:10

I understand Amnesty's "you're taking what we said out of context" as revealing that they don't actually believe TWAW either but see it as a politically expedient view to hold.

MichelleofzeResistance Tue 24-Nov-20 21:13:42

I'm honestly starting to wonder - is 'woke' just a bandwagon identity to some, and the reason I'm so confused is I expect there to be understanding and commitment and actual integrity behind the words, instead of understanding that for some it's just a trendy image that sounds and looks cool and isn't supposed to be taken seriously? Hence the whole reaction of 'I said that but I didn't mean that!' and idiocy like Irish women having no reason to feel a bit strongly about sexist oppression. Is it a misunderstanding that basic? Because I'm really too confused to work it out now.

bellinisurge Tue 24-Nov-20 21:21:30

Amnesty has lots of clever and careful legal minds who support it. The idea that it "didn't mean it like that" is preposterous. And anyway, these numpties have extrapolated all kinds of nonsense from JKR's very clear and simple statements. Taste of their own medicine.

Enough fucking around with Irish women.

SecondRow Tue 24-Nov-20 21:30:00

Colm was a psychotherapist in London before One In Four, I read on his Amnesty Ireland bio (where I was checking out the rest of the board, contemplating the likelihood of crossover with other groups...)

Makes the way he was speaking to Iseult White even worse - the lack of collegiality, quite apart from common courtesy.

Also made me genuinely shock for his clients back then...

HeyGirlHeyBoy Tue 24-Nov-20 21:31:55

I'm not surprised about Amnesty or O'Gorman. A colleague of his ten years ago told me that while he was Catholic (my friend), he couldn't say it in work as there was 'no way you could be openly Catholic jn Amnesty'... Oh I thought, so a place supposedly supporting tolerance and rights is completely intolerant within their own institution?! hmm That's not tolerance and this is more of the same and also shows a complete lack of that all important principle to be able to disagree completely with someone's opinion but to defend to the death their right to have it. Now I'm waiting on someone brave in media to pick this up.

SecondRow Tue 24-Nov-20 21:32:32

Amnesty is rightly getting attention over this because of its international profile and indeed its raison d'etre, but the NWCI should definitely be getting at least as much heat. Off to have a look now how they're faring.

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AnotherLass Tue 24-Nov-20 22:07:55

“it's just a trendy image that sounds and looks cool and isn't supposed to be taken seriously?”

Yes, I think that the entirety of gender ID ideology is playing on the ambiguity over whether they mean it or not. That’s basically the grift.

“I literally mean that transwomen are female when I am demanding that they be in women’s prisons and sports. I don’t mean that transwomen are female, when they go to the doctor. Of course not, that would be silly!”

I think that most people think that they mostly don’t mean it. That’s the “outer knowledge”. The “inner knowledge” is that they mean it to a much greater extent than those on the outside realise, although they still don’t fully mean it. Because you can’t really, fully mean that males are females.

At the end of the day, it’s basically: "I mean words literally when I choose. And when I don’t, my words mean nothing and you can’t hold me to them." Because it’s quite simply about being able to exercise arbitrary power.

HecatesCats Tue 24-Nov-20 22:20:53

The battle is over definitions. The right to define oneself as a woman and lay claim to the rights and protections assigned to the female sex. If you erase the edges of the term, blur the boundaries, if woman/female includes anyone who says they are a woman/female, all bets are off.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...

WB Yeats

Duckwit Tue 24-Nov-20 22:24:07

I don't know much about Twitter trends etc but this does seem to be a really popular hashtag!!!

Surely this is going to bring massive sunlight to the issue?

Weatherwarning Tue 24-Nov-20 22:49:29

I am so delighted to see this trending (even though I am not on twitter).
When I read the original letter signed by Amnesty and NWCI I felt sick. I had a knot in my stomach that the opinions of so many women were being silenced by the very people who were supposed to stand against oppression and for women. To publicly seek to disenfranchise women who are trying to be heard, I was honestly shocked to my core.
The ongoing silence about this outside of social media, shows how little ALL the political parties in Ireland care about Irish women. The veneer of being progressive was far more alluring. Self ID introduced by stealth. Now Self ID for minors. No debates, no thought or care for the impact on women or girls. Any objection dismissed as bigotry. Silence from the media.
#we will be heard.

HecatesCats Tue 24-Nov-20 23:06:34

I actually can't get over the line in Amnesty Ireland's response today:

"There are attempts to decontextualise phrases used in the letter in a way that confuses and misleads people"

Deliberate attempts by organisations, with huge financial backing, to confuse and mislead people about what a woman is and whose rights matter most are at the heart of this shitshow. The gaslighting goes on and on and on.

Eowynthewarrior Wed 25-Nov-20 06:53:45

Just realised when I said it was a god letter I meant the countess letter. Not the anti democratic bizzare amnesty one. Defending biology equals far right snd should be silenced. Sounds like flat earthing anti vaccine to me. Or denying evolution

SunsetBeetch Wed 25-Nov-20 07:09:48

Solidarity, Sisters! And well done.

No problems in Ireland with self ID my fecking arse.

justanotherneighinparadise Wed 25-Nov-20 07:21:55

AnotherLass

“it's just a trendy image that sounds and looks cool and isn't supposed to be taken seriously?”

Yes, I think that the entirety of gender ID ideology is playing on the ambiguity over whether they mean it or not. That’s basically the grift.

“I literally mean that transwomen are female when I am demanding that they be in women’s prisons and sports. I don’t mean that transwomen are female, when they go to the doctor. Of course not, that would be silly!”

I think that most people think that they mostly don’t mean it. That’s the “outer knowledge”. The “inner knowledge” is that they mean it to a much greater extent than those on the outside realise, although they still don’t fully mean it. Because you can’t really, fully mean that males are females.

At the end of the day, it’s basically: "I mean words literally when I choose. And when I don’t, my words mean nothing and you can’t hold me to them." Because it’s quite simply about being able to exercise arbitrary power.

What a fantastic post!! Explains it beautifully.

iguanadonna Wed 25-Nov-20 07:31:12

@AnotherLass that is a brilliant insight.

bellinisurge Wed 25-Nov-20 08:12:49

Spot on @AnotherLass .

It's not about biology unless I want to dehumanise you and call you a "cervix haver".
And calling men "ejaculators" is just petty and shows you for what you are.

Fucking doublethink. Oceania is and is not at war with Eastasia.

Ereshkigalangcleg Wed 25-Nov-20 08:18:14

Yes I agree. Plausible deniability.

SunsetBeetch Wed 25-Nov-20 08:37:05

MichelleofzeResistance

I'm honestly starting to wonder - is 'woke' just a bandwagon identity to some, and the reason I'm so confused is I expect there to be understanding and commitment and actual integrity behind the words, instead of understanding that for some it's just a trendy image that sounds and looks cool and isn't supposed to be taken seriously? Hence the whole reaction of 'I said that but I didn't mean that!' and idiocy like Irish women having no reason to feel a bit strongly about sexist oppression. Is it a misunderstanding that basic? Because I'm really too confused to work it out now.

I think, as with Social Justice, it started off as a movement with good intentions, then got jumped upon by the poseurs and gobshites and people who enjoy scolding and brandishing pitchforks.

littlbrowndog Wed 25-Nov-20 08:46:36

Amnesty- shut up women in Ireland

Amnesty- stop shutting up women in Saudi Arabia

#wewillbeheard

What unites us is we are women wherever we are from

Amnesty does not get to decide which women are allowed to be heard

justanotherneighinparadise Wed 25-Nov-20 09:11:25

Gobshite 🤣. Man I haven’t seen that word in so long. How I’ve missed it 😍

justanotherneighinparadise Wed 25-Nov-20 09:12:30

Isn’t it a shame that academics have been silenced for fear of their jobs being taken? This is such an interesting debate and I love reading on here as your explanations are perfect.

Duckwit Wed 25-Nov-20 09:16:22

This does rather bring the 'Ireland has had self id for ages with absolutely no issues' line to a rather abrupt and awkward halt doesn't it?

This is what happens when you bring in a law by stealth, without ever consulting people who would be affected by it.

MadamBatty Wed 25-Nov-20 09:27:07

Those cows are near...those cars are far away...poor oppressed cows in far away countries. Sad face. cows have rights you know. Give us money to help the poor cows.

Now let’s shove all these cows here into a small space for intensive farming & where we can keep an eye on them & stop them escaping.

SecondRow Wed 25-Nov-20 10:13:30

As this is kind of the current Irish thread I wanted to mention that Roisin Ingle tweeted Suzanne Moore's brilliant long piece on why she left the Guardian

twitter.com/roisiningle/status/1331504787582570497?s=19

Someone on here said a few months ago they thought Roisin "gets it"... I admit I was skeptical whether she'd ever properly put her head above the parapet. She'll get the snide Irish Twitter blowback for this but how much will be interesting. She's beloved, but still a woman, so... 🤷🏼‍♀️

SunsetBeetch Wed 25-Nov-20 10:20:05

SecondRow

Amnesty is rightly getting attention over this because of its international profile and indeed its raison d'etre, but the NWCI should definitely be getting at least as much heat. Off to have a look now how they're faring.

Did you find anything?

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