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Why are issues like increased crime presented as an issue that all of us need to solve?

(14 Posts)
thenamegameee Thu 12-Nov-20 16:39:54

My title is worded badly, but:

Men commit the vast majority of crime, particularly the violent crimes which make society unsafe. I was just watching ‘999: what’s your emergency’ and it made me think how rare it is to hear of women partaking in stabbings, shootings, serious assaults, etc. Then if they are then half the time it comes out that they retaliated to an abuser.

Yet still things like rising crime are presented as if we all need to work on ourselves...as if we’re all equally at fault? Also, can anyone explain why men do commit most crimes? Is it just more testosterone?

OP’s posts: |
midgebabe Thu 12-Nov-20 16:45:48

Testosterone and social conditioning.

The later does make it everyone's problem.

Personally even without that, I expect men to support feminist causes so why would I not expect women to support male causes such as violence or mental health problems ( which may be related )

PrawnofthePatriarchy Thu 12-Nov-20 16:47:37

Also, can anyone explain why men do commit most crimes? Is it just more testosterone?

This is a question that I often puzzle over. I am surrounded by gentle loving men so I know male violence isn't inevitable. But men commit pretty much all violent and sex crime. I asked DF, him being a doctor, and he said he didn't know but thought testosterone was probably important.

I don't know, but I'd love to.

NewUser123456789 Thu 12-Nov-20 17:01:52

Yes it's testosterone, it's overwhelmingly young men committing these crimes. By the time we get to 30 the odds drop way down. As for sex crime that's fairly obvious, women can mostly get all the sex they desire just by asking, have a fundamentally different evolutionary motive to partner selection and attraction and failing all that lack the physical strength to force themselves on men.

Criminal tendancies are formulated in childhood, parenting is absolutely key in reducing crime so yes clearly it is a responsibility for both sexes.

NonnyMouse1337 Thu 12-Nov-20 17:03:26

Male violence doesn't exist in a vaccum and it affects all of us, even though it's actually only a small proportion of males who commit most of the crimes.

I agree that there should be more honest conversation around 'male violence' as opposed to framing it as 'violence' in general.

I do think that a lack of strong male role models while boys are growing up does contribute to a lot of unhealthy behaviours and draws impressionable young men into making poor choices.
Good fatherhood is known to keep boys out of violent and disruptive behaviour (and is also known to benefit girls - less likely to engage in teen promiscuity).

Fatherhood can also affect men positively in that they re-evaluate their life and priorities.

I think there will always be male violence as some males are pathologically cruel. But there is a large proportion where it's down to societal and familial factors.

Goosefoot Thu 12-Nov-20 17:11:26

Because we live in society.

We are stuck with our biology. Males are more aggressive overall among most mammals, sometimes quite a lot more aggressive. There are advantages and disadvantages to this, but it's not something we can do much about anyway.

Society tries to shape positive and negative behaviours in a variety of ways, and that is collective, not individualistic. There are a variety of possible approaches, but to work, most people have to accept the idea and enter into the bargain.

If we want to lessen sexual assaults, for example, it might be a good idea to consider that if we overtly sexualise and depersonalise women, that's not helpful, because it impacts how men think of women, and even how women think of sexual assault. Of course we might on the other hand decide that forbidding sexualising materials would have other trade-offs we won't accept, but those are the kinds of questions society wrestles with, and that is why we can't really step out of the responsibility.

Imnobody4 Thu 12-Nov-20 17:45:13

I think we should separate strength, anger and aggression. It is perfectly possible to be small and aggressive. Impulse control plays a part.

History has not left us with a long line of physically violent strong men ruling the world. Prime Ministers don't go into battle like Medieval Kings. Yes they maybe ruthless but brains and communication skills win in the end. Boris and Keir are never going to have a fist fight to see who takes power, like Chimps, so I don't think the 'it's natural' illuminates anything. Hardly any men I know have been involved in a physical fight.

Socialisation matters. I was struck by something in the No more boys and girls doc. The girls had a large number of words to descibe their feelings, the boys really only had anger, feeling frightened -angry, feeling embarrassed -angry etc. This inhibits developing non violent solutions to unpleasant feelings. On the other hand I've seen little boys who are incredibly caring.

I really don't think there's a single cause for an individuals propensity for violence

MsMarvellous Thu 12-Nov-20 18:31:38

I worked for several years in a barristers chambers and saw a lot of papers that dealt with some of the most serious crimes.

For a large number of people it seemed to me to be a mix of social and economic factors that led to crime committed outwith relationships. So violence committed as part of burglary or theft predominately comes from males who live at the lower end of income banding, educational achievement, and who have limited prospects. Often they seemed to be expected to provide but have no tools or opportunity to do so without resorting to crime.

Within relationships it always seemed to me that it was more "equal" in that men of any socio-economic group would be likely to abuse and harm women. It left me feeling that there is something built in to a certain type of man that has the need to control all around him. I suspect we all know or have met people like this.

There are also those I would consider "built wrong". Something wired so wrong in their brain that they would offend in horrific ways regardless of any factors. The sort who hurt things just to see what happens, again, almost without exception, male.

Really, it seems to me that our social makeup has the largest part to play. The division between rich and poor, haves and have nots, is growing. That kind of division leads to resentment and anger with no outlet to effect change. Men, who as mammals have the biology and testosterone to push them to do what needs to be done, lash out.

I am not surprised violent crime is increasing in the society that seems to be developing. Unless we can provide jobs and an economy that allows those on the lowest income to provide comfortably for their families and have a safe roof over their heads, I can't see things improving. It behoves all of us fight for a fairer way of living.

Wanderingstars4238 Fri 13-Nov-20 00:17:47

Almost every time a man commits some kind of heinous crime, a look into his childhood reveals that he was either abused by his main caretaker, or bullied by peers. Not always, but usually.

Boys who are abused wind up becoming dangerous at a higher rate than girls who are abused. I think that's mainly due to to social conditioning.

I can't understand why there's relatively low interest in child abuse and how to prevent it, compared with other issues that get attention all the time. Without child abuse most serious crime in the world would stop, IMO.

nothingcomestonothing Fri 13-Nov-20 10:25:27

As for sex crime that's fairly obvious, women can mostly get all the sex they desire just by asking, have a fundamentally different evolutionary motive to partner selection and attraction

I cannot agree with this. Rape and other sexual violence is NOT about wanting sex, or partner selection or attraction. It is purely about power, dominance and control, about forcing your wants on another.

Goosefoot Fri 13-Nov-20 18:40:44

nothingcomestonothing

*As for sex crime that's fairly obvious, women can mostly get all the sex they desire just by asking, have a fundamentally different evolutionary motive to partner selection and attraction*

I cannot agree with this. Rape and other sexual violence is NOT about wanting sex, or partner selection or attraction. It is purely about power, dominance and control, about forcing your wants on another.

That's a theory, but I have to sayI don't think a particularly robust one. Sometimes is can be more about dominance than those other things, but you can't extrapolate and say that in many cases it also doesn't relate to sexual interest.

Even at first blush, that seems an odd conclusion - it would mean that people who are , say, sociopaths, or have significantly poor impulse control, never commit rape or assault when they actually are sexually attracted to someone. Why would anyone think that doesn't happen?

DrDavidBanner Fri 13-Nov-20 18:56:29

I think there are many causes;

Higher testosterone definitely plays a part, and I remember watching that Child of Our Time series and they were saying that girls are more risk averse than boys, this is from infancy so I don't know how much of that is a socialised thing?

Socialisation is also a factor, males in general can be more entitled than females and I think fro a young age girls are expected to behave in a more responsible manner, particularly where their own safety is concerned.

Childhood trauma and abuse definintely play a part, but brain injury can have a profound effect on the way people develop. I am interested in true crime and the number of serial killers for example who suffered brain injuries as children is overwhelming, the frontal lobe is something that should not be fucked with.

DrDavidBanner Fri 13-Nov-20 19:02:59

I agree sex crimes are not about desire. there are plenty of people including women who are not able to have all the sex they desire.

Attractive, successful and desireable people also rape. Ted Bundy looked like a movie star and still had women falling over themselves over him even knowing what he was capable of. Rape is about power and control.

LouJ85 Fri 13-Nov-20 21:41:49

Men are also (generally speaking) less likely to be encouraged to be attuned to and healthily express their emotions as children- sometimes at the family level and at other times due to societal expectations that "boys don't cry". As men, this can lead to difficult suppressed emotions for which there is little or no healthy outlet (in other words, whilst women are encouraged to cry and talk about their feelings, men are more likely to "bottle things up"). Negative emotion such as frustration and anger etc has to go somewhere. Which helps to explain why men are more likely than women to both commit suicide as well engage in violent crimes - these acts often represent an outpouring / outlet of difficult suppressed emotion.

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