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Glenn Greenwald getting there?

(16 Posts)
NecessaryScene1 Fri 30-Oct-20 10:17:45

I've mentioned Glenn a few times here, as I've been a huge fan since the Iraq War, and he's the sort of heterodox thinker I'd expect to not be playing ball with the loopy aspects of gender ideology.

Andrew Sullivan, whom I've also followed since then, is super gender-critical, but it's been taking Glenn a while to get there. He was not very sympathetic to JKR, for example.

Glenn and Andrew are two gay men who for me both really have to be firmly on the gender critical side. Their whole brand is being anti-establishment bullshit, particularly on their respective sides. If they turned out not to be, then either they're frauds, or I'd have to have to reevaluate my own views...

Currently watching Glenn on Joe Rogan, and they're now spending a long time on the issue - girls having surgery, and men in women's sports.

Pleased to see his anti-authoritarian instincts finally overtaking his instinctive "LGBTQ-friendliness" (and the disadvantage of being American). He instinctively knows that if there's anything we're not allowed to talk about we really need to start talking about.

Glenn has just quit the Intercept (after recording the Rogan podcast), so maybe knowing that he's going independent again might be freeing him up a little.

Glenn on Rogan; gender bit is about an hour and a half in:

Glenn's own podcast about the Abigail Shrier/Rogan/Spotify thing:

Glenn's article about the hounding of Martina Navratilova:

OP’s posts: |
CharlieParley Fri 30-Oct-20 10:28:09

Thank you! Yes, I had been reading his stuff since then as well. Had expected him to question the recent authoritarian nature of the activism, but like you I was disappointed by his unquestioning support.

NotBadConsidering Fri 30-Oct-20 10:46:51

Well if he’s getting it, it’s only since June. He wasn’t just “not very sympathetic” to Rowling, he said “JK Rowling's victimhood complex is suffocating & narcissistic.” That’s pretty vile.

NecessaryScene1 Fri 30-Oct-20 11:14:58

I think his empathy for women is very low - he seems to share that with a lot of gay men. In the Rogan thing he does mention feminists having an issue with transwomens' view of "being a woman" in passing, but he clearly doesn't really grasp how serious the whole situation is for women.

So he's kind of being reluctantly dragged into paying attention to this primarily by the authoritarian antics, and secondarily by his respect for Navratilova. It's not something he'd be interested in otherwise.

He's never going to be a feminist (ally). But I expect him to be calling out the bullshit.

I still don't grasp what was going on in his head in those June tweets. He's clearly got some (American?) misconceptions about the nature of the fight.

OP’s posts: |
GratedExposure Fri 30-Oct-20 15:10:12

Same here - I've also followed and liked GG's journalism for years. And was disappointed by his reaction to JKR's statement. However, I wonder whether that was at least in part a reaction to other things he had disagreed with JKR on politically. Either way, his response was not great, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he's more critical of the current gender politics than his initial tweet, etc., suggested.

fakenina Fri 30-Oct-20 22:21:58

Greenwald is one of quite a few left thinkers who I think are intenegent enough to know its bullshit but have been constraigned by tribialism (and tbf, not really giving a shit about women).

But as the oppressive nature of gender idology becomes too much to pretend you haven't noticed, I think more and more men who pride themselfs on a reputation as honest free thinkers are going to have to either break ranks or be exposed as frauds.

Its time to put up or shut up left bros.

nepeta Fri 30-Oct-20 22:45:06

IF Glenn is changing his mind on this, look for other reasons than bog-standard women's rights. He is not exactly a feminist.

AnotherLass Fri 30-Oct-20 23:06:33

I don't think that any belief in women's rights is necessary to get this issue. All you need is a basic belief in truth and/or civil liberties.

AnyOldPrion Fri 30-Oct-20 23:34:56

That Intercept article is astonishing. The knots twists himself into to continue his belief!

Despite Martina’s far superior sporting knowledge, and despite the fully acknowledged fact that she has been on what he would consider the right side of this debate for ever, his blinkers are so tightly over his eyes that he can’t even see the road in front of him. The very plausible conclusion that actually, she might just be right doesn’t even come within a ten mile radius of his walled-in mind.

fakenina Sat 31-Oct-20 13:26:18

This always plays in my head whenever I think about left interlectuals and how they are dealing with the gender idology 'debate'

miri1985 Mon 16-Nov-20 03:36:55

Great article by Glen Greenwald about an ACLU lawyer saying Abigail Shrier's book is dangerous and should be supressed

334bu Mon 16-Nov-20 08:09:40

Interesting Thank you for posting.

Ereshkigalangcleg Mon 16-Nov-20 08:24:24

TRA lawyer Chase Strangio, no less.

AnotherLass Mon 16-Nov-20 08:32:32

It's a step in the right direction but Greenwald is still utterly failing to get this issue. And the sycophantic fawning over Strangio, who is one of the most extreme raging lunatics I've ever read on on twitter, is really grating.

TartrazineCustard Mon 16-Nov-20 09:40:51

I suspect that the extreme respect shown to Strangio in that column is an appeal to him to "do better." Strangio's clearly capable of understanding what free speech is and why it's important (as Greenwald details), but has lost perspective and is acting destructively in this area.

I'm glad to see Greenwald noticing. This wouldn't have happened 12-18 months ago.

Floisme Mon 16-Nov-20 10:17:07

I think that if he were to take a fraction of that empathy he shows for men who want to be women, and focused it instead on women, then he might get there. I can't see it happening. But he does at least understand free speech, which is not to be sniffed at.

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