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America's War On Abortion

(58 Posts)
yourhairiswinterfire Thu 29-Oct-20 23:47:36

I'm just watching this on ITV, I don't know if it's a repeat, but God, it's so upsetting.

Pro-lifers pitch up everyday outside an abortion clinic in Alabama shouting abuse through megaphones at the women attending, calling them whores, sluts, ''look at the way she's dressed, showing her legs'', murderers, they deserve to bleed to death... It's just absolutely awful. The only positive is that there are volunteers who shield the women from view of the protesters with opened umbrellas as they make their way into the clinic.

One of the women had an abortion because her baby boy likely wouldn't survive, she was devastated, and she had to go through vile pricks hurling insults at her as she was making probably the hardest, most painful decision of her life sad

The campaigners racially abused the presenter, Deeyah Khan, and told her she'd probably get raped that night because of the jeans she was wearing. She bravely confronted them, and they told her ''we're not letting women speak right now''. angry

I'm just furious watching it. So, so angry on behalf of those women. Men thinking they own women's bodies, and some of their wives in tow, proudly declaring that they ''obey'' their husbands.

Absolute woman hating bastards, shouting 'the land of the free' whilst shaming and protesting women's freedoms.

OP’s posts: |
vivariumvivariumsvivaria Thu 29-Oct-20 23:59:00

America is terrifying for women.

InFlagranteDerelicto Fri 30-Oct-20 00:00:40

Absolutely agree. I could never have an abortion unless the baby was unlikely to survive, but that's my choice & other women should be allowed to make their own choices. It's a scandal that women struggling with partial MCs, & carrying foetuses that have conditions that are incompatible with life, have to put up with this abuse from these monsters in the name of religion. It's a scandal that anyone should have to. None of those protesters know the individual women's circumstances.

And "Land Of The Free" is a crock of shit. It should be renamed Land Of The Bankrupt. If we're talking about healthcare costs. Or morals of the current presidency.

MrsTerryPratchett Fri 30-Oct-20 00:07:26

Absolute woman hating bastards, shouting 'the land of the free' whilst shaming and protesting women's freedoms.

To quote Rage Against the Machine, "Land of the Free? Whoever told you that is your enemy."

As well as the very clear war on women, what pisses me off is statistics. If you don't like abortions, if you want to minimise them, what you do is make women's lives easier. Free, available contraception, pro-female law, good childcare provision, great maternity leave, decent healthcare available widely, and yes free, available abortion. Places where it is the most illegal, HAVE THE MOST. Places with free legal abortion HAVE THE LEAST. Because it turns out that when you treat women as humans, who make good choices, they'd rather plan their families.

Make it illegal (which I think they will now in the US) see how many abortions you have. Canada will have clinics lined up against the border to start with.

MiladyRenata Fri 30-Oct-20 00:10:25

I don't understand why this is even a debate. Nobody owns or controls your body except you.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria Fri 30-Oct-20 00:12:01

It's infuriating watching all these men speak about what women should do with their bodies.

MiladyRenata Fri 30-Oct-20 00:14:33

I'm trying to think of an analogy. Suppose your blood uniquely has antibodies in it that cure Covid-19.

Can you sell it to the highest bidder? Hell yeah!

Can it be taken from you by force if you say no? Nope. It's called self ownership, and its the basis of any civilized society.

yourhairiswinterfire Fri 30-Oct-20 00:15:03

Apologies for the typo in the title, should be America's.

OP’s posts: |
SingingSands Fri 30-Oct-20 00:22:01

I watched it and it was so, so upsetting.

Those poor woman, often the poorest in society, having to go such extremes to get an abortion. Driving for 10 hours to the nearest clinic, having to save up for so long they are past 20 weeks, having to jump through hoops of having 3 separate appointments which just drags the experience out longer.

And those awful, awful, "Christians" at the gates, baying for their blood.

The "protectors" who helped the women to the door of the clinic were amazing, but what a toxic environment to be in day in, day out.

The level of ignorance, fear and contempt the protestors had though... it was like looking at people from 400 years ago at a "witch" burning.

PhoebeSnow Fri 30-Oct-20 00:29:29

Thank you for reminding me that this is on OP.
I am just watching this on itv +1 and it’s harrowing what those women have to go though, and those so called Christians abusing those women should be ashamed of themselves. They don’t give a shit about the women and their situations.
I admire the brave doctors , nurses and the support staff who are literally putting their lives on the line to help women when they are so desperately vulnerable. It reminded me of the film If These Walls Could Talk.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria Fri 30-Oct-20 00:31:03

That woman at the end, I didn't catch her name. God love her. I hope she's doing ok now and I'm very glad she got the care that she needed - eventually.

InFlagranteDerelicto Fri 30-Oct-20 00:41:47

I also notice that many of the groups & individuals howling at women who need abortions, rarely seem to offer any ongoing support for struggling families in poverty. They rarely campaign for improved access to affordable healthcare & benefits, childcare & housing for families with more children than they can afford to feed. It's as if life stops being sacred the moment a child is born. It's not a pro-life movement, it's a forced birth movement.

Interestingly, it appears that although in many states abortion is prohibited or strictly controlled, & a woman can even be jailed for engaging in behaviour that she could have predicted might accidentally terminate the pregnancy (like fighting), the US government didn't recognise foetuses as important enough to grant pregnant women the additional $500 stimulus money that other children got.

Delphinium20 Fri 30-Oct-20 06:31:48

It's absolutely awful in many states in America. I had a friend who had a fetus that was incompatible with life (just a brain stem, no face/skull). She was nearing 20 weeks and her blood pressure was dangerously high so her doctor was pushing for an abortion ASAP. It was heartbreaking because it was such a wanted pregnancy. While she was in shock trying to come to terms with aborting while feeling kicks every day, she waited too long to make a decision and went past the 20 week mark, which forced her to drive out of state to get an abortion in a state that allowed it after the 20 week mark. She had 2 younger DC and her husband had to drive her 7-8 hours (both ways) to get the abortion, leaving her little ones at home with a sitter. It was just an awful, awful situation all around and fuck those 'christians' who shame women going through such hell.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg Fri 30-Oct-20 08:14:13

It's about fundamentally wanting women to suffer, isn't it?

religion does give a lot of seriously unhappy and unpleasant people an 'out' for their general desire to oppress others

it makes me rather despairing that that seems to be a fundamental urge for humans as a class

risefromyourgrave Fri 30-Oct-20 08:21:41

And you can guarantee that some of those pro life protesters will be the same ones holding ‘My body my choice’ signs at the anti mask demonstrations. And they won’t see the irony because they are too bloody entrenched.

TheVanguardSix Fri 30-Oct-20 08:30:49

As an American from the West Coast, you give the Bible Belt the biggest swerve. It's the land of crazy redneck fundamentalist bullshit and the frightful thing is that it has legs and travels far. These bastards have power. That's what blows my mind. If you're in a place where you see billboards imploring you to 'go to church or else' and the trucks have gunracks, you need to take your uterus and get the fuck outta dodge, lickedy split.

Whatwouldscullydo Fri 30-Oct-20 08:36:43

I think I've seen something similar.

Makes me sick. None of the protesters have cured cancer, or those developmental abnormalities. They aren't paying medical bills for sick babies or birth injury repairs. They have no intention.of feeding clothing or raising the baby They feel should be born regardless of how sick it is or whether or not the mother wants it

Occasionally they throw you a bone ajd "approve " in the case of incest or rape, like that makes them an ok person.

Just fuck off. They can all fuck off. Its ok to not want a baby. You don't need a reason. Not wanting one is sufficient

ErrolTheDragon Fri 30-Oct-20 08:39:33

* It's called self ownership, and its the basis of any civilized society.*

Anyone with a cursory interest in history and women's place in it knows that many 'civilised' societies included controlling women, in particular with regard to fertility and assuring paternity. It's very explicit in traditional Christianity, but also in eg ancient Athens - the cradle of civilised democracy but only for Athenian males.

The notion that women are equal humans and should be accorded equal human rights to males is very recent and by no means universally accepted, unfortunately.

Dramaofallama Fri 30-Oct-20 09:04:53

I watched this last night, wish I hadn't as it just left me angry.

But I am not surprised, most of these protesters are men and it normally about control of the women and their bodies rather than the welfare of the unborn child and mother as they claim it to be.

Because let's face it, if they really cared they would have set up food banks, support networks, protesting for free healthcare for children ect.

It summed up their mentality perfectly when the journalist mentioned the 11 year old girl pregnant through incest and their response was "we have to face hard times in life" or something like that, like the 11 year old already hadn't angry.

PickleC Fri 30-Oct-20 12:17:33

Watched last night and the level of misogyny displayed by the protesters was jawdropping. Examples already mentioned here but the names being called for the women accessing services and those protecting them (sluts, bitches), the rape references, the racial prejudices, the Islamophobia against the film-maker, the throwaway comments about just not 'fornicating' .... it was so clear that this was nothing to do with 'saving' babies. This was simply a chance to scream abuse at women in the most vile way. To remind them of their place and to try to shame them for accessing what should just be another form of healthcare.

My other take away from the programme was how much this was directed at women who had least access to other options. They couldn't travel easily, they had financial constraints that delayed being able to visit clinics, the childcare issues if there were overnight stays. This was class and race based policy making as well as a war on women's rights but with zero effort to actually make a difference in people's lives for the better. The focus was all on ensuring that people would carry to term but after that they were utterly on their own.

Its scary to think how easily those rights can be taken away and not even by one big court case, though that could happen, but by a thousand tiny ways to delay procedures, lack of funding and threats.

yourhairiswinterfire Fri 30-Oct-20 12:24:27

it was so clear that this was nothing to do with 'saving' babies. This was simply a chance to scream abuse at women in the most vile way.

Yes, they just wanted to shame and punish them for having sex didn't they? Awful people.

I do wish I hadn't watched so close to going to bed, I was so angry and upset for them.

OP’s posts: |
DidoLamenting Fri 30-Oct-20 12:44:26

MiladyRenata

I'm trying to think of an analogy. Suppose your blood uniquely has antibodies in it that cure Covid-19.

Can you sell it to the highest bidder? Hell yeah!

Can it be taken from you by force if you say no? Nope. It's called self ownership, and its the basis of any civilized society.

Although I am pro- choice I find many of the pro- choice arguments very unconvincing. This one is just a variation on the "famous violinist " argument. I.e a woman unexpectedly finds herlrself attached physically to a world famous violinist to provide life support for 9 months because she is the only person who is compatible.

I think both are very silly and they don't strengthen pro choice arguments if one has to invent fictitious analogies.

I'm also not convinced by the " no forced birth" argument either. It's often said on here that if men don't want to have children then use contraception or don't have sex. Rape and incest aside - the same argument applies to women. If anything the "no forced birth" argument is in line with the antis who support abortion in the case of rape and incest.

The "bodily autonomy" argument doesn’t convince me either as it fails to take account of the unique situation applying to a pregnancy.

Whilst I support choice I can't get away from the fact it is ending a potential life which in most cases would otherwise have been viable. Non- viability is I'd guess the reason in only a tiny number of the UK's 200,000 plus annual abortions.

It comes down to inconvenience really- the inconvenience might be considerable in some cases, less so in others.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 30-Oct-20 13:59:25

* It comes down to inconvenience really- the inconvenience might be considerable in some cases, less so in others.*

Inconvenience?confused I suppose you might think so if you were financially secure, and that pregnancy wouldn't potentially affect your work and your health (and if you have good healthcare).

Twizbe Fri 30-Oct-20 14:21:20

@DidoLamenting in the UK we are in an extremely privileged position with the NHS. Pregnancy and birth have very few financial implications for us. However in the US it can coat thousands just to get the medical care. A friend of mine gave birth there and without insurance it would have cost $140,000! With insurance it was $5000!

Add to that the fact that contraception also costs a lot of money in the state and not all insurance plans cover it. Your insurance is mostly linked to your employment and if your employer is particularly conservative they can refuse to fund any contraception (they tend to be ok with viagra though🤷🏼‍♀️)

So if you're a married women (often the only ones 'allowed' to be having sex by these pro lifers) and you accidentally get pregnant because you cannot afford contraception then you could be faced with a massive medical bill which could bankrupt you. How would that impact you and any children you already had?

I'd call a potential bill of several thousand dollars more than an inconvenience.

PhoebeSnow Fri 30-Oct-20 14:31:16

Do you honestly think that any girl or woman makes the choice to have an abortion lightly Dido? Seriously? You have a right to your opinion, however a great many people disagree.
Safe legal abortion, as early as possible should be a right for any woman anywhere, and for whatever reason.
Women have ended pregnancies since recorded time, thousands and thousands of women have probably died over centuries due to unsafe abortion, and any end to safe legal abortion anywhere will drive women back to desperate measures. No woman should ever again have to use a coat hanger, or knitting needle to end an unwanted pregnancy.
I have lost three pregnancies in my lifetime and those experiences have made me even more pro choice than I was before hand.

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