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BBC news are about to give a report on the massive increase in transphobic hate crime

(105 Posts)
Tissueboxcover Tue 27-Oct-20 13:34:24

Just that really.
I wondered if anyone else is watching.

OP’s posts: |
ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 27-Oct-20 13:56:14

Hate crime or hate "incidents" hmm

wellbehavedwomen Tue 27-Oct-20 14:09:04

There is horrible, genuine abuse. The problem is that 'deadnaming' and 'misgendering' is conflated with threats and actual violence. The former are rude, no question, but not actual hatred. And yet the latter can be, and are, reported as hate incidents.

I think the main thing is that transphobic abuse does exist and is grossly unacceptable, though. I don't think there's any need to deny or diminish that, in order to assert that women also deserve respect, provision, and rights both in law and in practice. The two should run in parallel, not be either/or.

yourhairiswinterfire Tue 27-Oct-20 14:10:28

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Hate crime or hate "incidents" hmm

That's what I was thinking. We've all seen what passes as transphobic hate, so I can't take anything like this seriously anymore sadly, especially not from the BBC who pretend they're unbiased when they've shown they're anything but (women's hour debacle) hmm

This is the effect the activists are having. Women's rights, women's privacy, the word woman, biology, chromosomes, sex, child safeguarding, bereaved mothers, fairness, homosexuality, reality-all transphobic. The boy who cried wolf.

yourhairiswinterfire Tue 27-Oct-20 14:12:52

^And meant to add, genuine transphobic abuse is abhorrent and has no place in society, just like homophobia, racism, etc. It angers me that narcissistic brats are diluting what it means.

blueangel19 Tue 27-Oct-20 14:21:32

This is the effect the activists are having. Women's rights, women's privacy, the word woman, biology, chromosomes, sex, child safeguarding, bereaved mothers, fairness, homosexuality, reality-all transphobic. The boy who cried wolf.

Absolutely!!!!p

nepeta Tue 27-Oct-20 14:44:46

yourhairiswinterfire

^And meant to add, genuine transphobic abuse is abhorrent and has no place in society, just like homophobia, racism, etc. It angers me that narcissistic brats are diluting what it means.

Indeed. Statistics should be gathered by the government and all hate crimes should be defined on the same basis.

Hate crime against transgender people is horrible and must absolutely be condemned, but talking about women's rights, for instance, is not a hate crime or even a hate incident. Yet some activists argue that it is what causes trans people to die.

MichelleofzeResistance Tue 27-Oct-20 15:02:39

I'm afraid since it became apparent that this may mean a wholly unacceptable violent crime, or it may mean a perceived social slight, the whole concept became meaningless. There's no knowing the ratio of what is something that should absolutely be a cause for serious concern and what should not have ever been recorded in the first place. Now it's well known that no one knows (or will admit) what the percentage of each is, the whole thing cannot be taken seriously.

FindTheTruth Tue 27-Oct-20 15:03:04

I'd like to know what the definition of the transphobic hate crime actually is.

Hate crime used to mean a crime covered by criminal justice act and crime and disorder act.... typically involving violence, motivated by prejudice against one of the 9 protected characteristics in the equality act... race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender status etc.

But these days... CPS defines 'hostility' as a hate crime and though they admit 'There is no legal definition of hostility', they include 'harassment' online. People have been questioned by police for 'wrong think' on twitter....so have those cases been recorded as hate crimes?

NRatched Tue 27-Oct-20 15:22:34

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Hate crime or hate "incidents" hmm

Yup, huge huge difference. Given 'hate incidents' includes stuff like someone posting something on twitter that someone else doesn't like.

If there has actually been an increase in transphobic attacks, thats concerning, but otherwise, its nonsense.

Ereshkigalangcleg Tue 27-Oct-20 15:25:36

Criminal offences meeting the definition of "hate crime" involving misgendering or non threatening behaviour to trans people can come under several laws, as far as I know, depending on the circumstances. These include the Public Order Act, Communications Act or Protection from Harassment Act. Depending on the perception of the alleged victim.

Stickers could come under criminal damage, and could therefore be a hate crime if someone said they perceived it as such.

nepeta Tue 27-Oct-20 15:25:55

*Yup, huge huge difference. Given 'hate incidents' includes stuff like someone posting something on twitter that someone else doesn't like.

If there has actually been an increase in transphobic attacks, thats concerning, but otherwise, its nonsense.*
In last year's FBI statistics on hate crime in the US, gay men had the highest rate of homicides among the LGBTetc group and if I remember correctly, also the highest overall assault and harassment rates.

PurpleHoodie Tue 27-Oct-20 15:34:28

Where can we find the report?

Is it easily found on iplayer?

JulieBindelAteMyHamster Tue 27-Oct-20 15:36:37

I think the main thing is that transphobic abuse does exist

I wonder if this is true. When men abuse transwomen, I suspect this is has more to do with patriarchal ideas of masculinity and a fear of homosexuality. I don't think it's done out of hatred of 'trans' people per se.

Ereshkigalangcleg Tue 27-Oct-20 15:38:38

I agree, I think it's more often homophobic abuse directed at people for their perceived sexuality.

NecessaryScene1 Tue 27-Oct-20 15:42:56

How many of these "crimes" have reached court? There presumably must have been others aside from Mermaids vs Miranda Yardley?

Don't recall seeing any, but I haven't looked for them.

Fallingirl Tue 27-Oct-20 15:43:26

There is horrible, genuine abuse. The problem is that 'deadnaming' and 'misgendering' is conflated with threats and actual violence.

I am even beginning to doubt the claims that there is genuine abuse. Any actual attacks on trans people would have been all over the news. The only ‘genuine’ case that springs to mind, is the autistic boy calling out “is it a boy or a girl” to a police officer. The media were all over that.

Surely any physical attacks would be reported everywhere for weeks. But they haven’t been. We are expected to take it on trust, that truly horrible abuse occurs, and I just don’t anymore.

jdoejnr1 Tue 27-Oct-20 15:45:01

FindTheTruth

I'd like to know what the definition of the transphobic hate crime actually is.

Hate crime used to mean a crime covered by criminal justice act and crime and disorder act.... typically involving violence, motivated by prejudice against one of the 9 protected characteristics in the equality act... race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender status etc.

But these days... CPS defines 'hostility' as a hate crime and though they admit 'There is no legal definition of hostility', they include 'harassment' online. People have been questioned by police for 'wrong think' on twitter....so have those cases been recorded as hate crimes?

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. Hate crimes still require a crime to be committed, in fact the person won't even be put before the court for a 'hate' crime just 'the crime'. Save for racially or religious motivated crimes and then there has to be proof of the 'hate' element.

As for hate incidents they are recorded for statistics only.

Datun Tue 27-Oct-20 15:47:46

Surely any physical attacks would be reported everywhere for weeks. But they haven’t been. We are expected to take it on trust, that truly horrible abuse occurs, and I just don’t anymore.

Nor do I. Studies repeatedly report that a male transitioner is statistically less likely to be killed than a male non transitioner.

Why would this trend be reversed for other violent crime?

I don't get it.

NecessaryScene1 Tue 27-Oct-20 15:49:48

> As for hate incidents they are recorded for statistics only.

You surely cannot be unaware of FairCop and Harry Miller's judicial review? The crime report on his record a "non-crime"?

And the damning judgment against the police's actions in that case

> The effect of the police turning up at his place of work because of his political opinions must not be underestimated. To do so would be to undervalue a cardinal democratic freedom. In this country we have never had a Cheka, a Gestapo or a Stasi. We have never lived in an Orwellian society.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuZMyqhUUk

FairFridaythe13th Tue 27-Oct-20 15:50:22

I did read somewhere on twitter a force recruiting 250 officers for the hate crime brigade. I assume that won’t cover rape, DV etc.

NewlyGranny Tue 27-Oct-20 15:55:36

No, misogyny is not a hate crime. 🤷🏼‍♀️

FairFridaythe13th Tue 27-Oct-20 15:58:16

Unless... well you know. I’m so happy that the met (for it is they) have solved all the knife crimes and mugging in London.

NewlyGranny Tue 27-Oct-20 15:58:38

And it would be interesting to know who, exactly, is perpetrating physical violence on transpeople. Pretty sure like most violence it's male violence. Some UK stats would be good, but that might come later. It might also be muddied by reported gender, as in two transwomen falling out, fighting and the crime being labelled as committed by a woman, or women.

PastMyBestBeforeDate Tue 27-Oct-20 16:01:22

The only ‘genuine’ case that springs to mind, is the autistic boy calling out “is it a boy or a girl” to a police officer. The media were all over that.
And yet when a boy wearing a sunflower lanyard is physically beaten up (recent MN post - not by me) the police decline to take action.

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