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Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

(491 Posts)
bunters Tue 20-Oct-20 10:17:48

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

OP’s posts: |
Alexandernevermind Tue 20-Oct-20 10:22:07

It isn't about transphobia - far from it. Most feminist will be very open and welcoming to the genuine trans community. The issue lies with self id. Do a little research on male prisoners in womens prisons, teen boys trying to get access to girls changing rooms, males participating in women's sports. It's about protecting safe space for women and our sex based protective rights.

DixieFlatline Tue 20-Oct-20 10:23:16

Try reading some threads instead of expecting women to repeat themselves for the 100th time.

JoodyBlue Tue 20-Oct-20 10:23:27

I wonder if you have read JKRs essay? She explains herself quite clearly. The issues are set out in a way that is easy to understand. Perhaps revisit it smile

MoonBaby1 Tue 20-Oct-20 10:25:16

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NotTerfNorCis Tue 20-Oct-20 10:26:11

Feminism is about fighting for women's rights. If the definition of woman is changed so it becomes meaningless, that's a fundamental problem.

NaturalStudy Tue 20-Oct-20 10:27:43

OP you have fundamentally misunderstood the concerns raised by gender critical feminists. I think until you properly read and understand what the issues are this debate is pointless.

DaisiesandButtercups Tue 20-Oct-20 10:28:16

There is a thread somewhere titled break it down for me. You can search for it or maybe someone more tech savvy than me will kindly link it for you.

Basically though if we don’t exist as a sex class, if we can’t define ourselves or discuss our lives and biology then we can’t even begin to fight against any of the things that you mentioned.

KnightsofColumbusThatHurt Tue 20-Oct-20 10:28:54

OK, I have a few questions for you:

What is a woman? What is a man? How do you define that?

98% of sexual crime is perpetrated by males. Males as a class are a high risk group, females as a class are a low risk. It is for this reason that my husband for example, who is a wonderful man who is not a danger to anyone and would never hurt anyone, is not allowed into female spaces. Because he is in the 'high risk' category of male.

So, at what indisputable, objective point, upon which law and policy can be made, does a 'male who identifies as female' come out of the high risk category of male, and into the low risk category of female? Is it full surgery? Breast implants? Long hair and make up? A dress? Just their declaration?

How can you try and solve sexism if you can't define people by sex?

Alexandernevermind Tue 20-Oct-20 10:29:41

And if youdofeel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?
By moaning on mumsnet and through social media we are raising awareness through each other. This board has been a HUGE eye opener for me. On a practical level, what else can we do except for vocalise- to each other, to the wider population and to the government? Storming the womens prisons and dragging out the male inmates would perhaps be frowned upon ;-)

SirVixofVixHall Tue 20-Oct-20 10:29:54

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

teawamutu Tue 20-Oct-20 10:29:54

Here's the Break It Down For Me thread:

Have a look at that, think it'll answer a lot of questions.

And of course read JKR's essays if you haven't already.

PopperUppleton Tue 20-Oct-20 10:30:19

What they said ⬆️

The problem is with the erasure of 'woman' as a class, everything else falls by the wayside. Domestic violence? Suffered by people. Rape? Suffered by people. Discrimination due to possible pregnancy? Suffered by people.

SaucyHorse Tue 20-Oct-20 10:30:41


IToldYouIWasFreaky Tue 20-Oct-20 10:31:27


Feminism is about fighting for women's rights. If the definition of woman is changed so it becomes meaningless, that's a fundamental problem.

Exactly this. If we include men in the category of women, how can we even measure the scale of the problem of male violence against women, let alone do anything about it?

I find it very hard to believe that you've read JK Rowling's statements though, if you actually believe that she thinks trans people pose a bigger threat to women than men do.

sunshinesupermum Tue 20-Oct-20 10:32:19

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. Er no, bunters - she commented on someone else's language.

KnightsofColumbusThatHurt Tue 20-Oct-20 10:32:27

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us,

Think about the lengths that men will go to to gain any kind of easier access to vulnerable people. Why take away safeguards (in this case keeping spaces single sex) because 'men are gonna rape us anyway'?

Cuntysnark Tue 20-Oct-20 10:32:53

Alexandernevermind That final sentence caught my eye too. I feel a tad underestimated but I’m not going to show my cards here!

KiposWonderbeasts Tue 20-Oct-20 10:33:30

Oh look, a first ever post disingenuously asking us to do all the work of educating them.


If you're genuine, follow the link posted above.

Barracker Tue 20-Oct-20 10:33:47

Those men, the ones you think are the 'real' problem?

They never change sex. Not one of them. No matter what they call themselves, no matter what you label them.
The boys born on the same day as your daughter? They never become women. Not one of them. They remain male, for life, never becoming female. No matter what they wear, no matter what feelings they possess, no matter what offensively sexist convictions they hold about women's minds, and whether a man can have one. No matter if you pretend for them, or call them something they are not.
No boy ever 'transitions' from male to female. It is impossible.

Those men are all men. All of them. ALL of them.

I have to contort my words on this platform because I'm literally forbidden from stating the truth here. It would be easier to say what I want to say, the truth, in three simple words. But I am censored, as are you, as will be your daughter (who is your daughter, not your son, on account of her sex) from saying those three words. Censored, and likely punished in some areas of life, even criminally, for telling the truth about our own sex.
For the truth.

'Transwomen' are ...

I'm not allowed to finish that sentence truthfully. In the UK. In 2020. Without negative consequences.

I'm working to make it permissable to speak the truth without censorship.
For me, for you, and for your daughter.

HubertHerbert Tue 20-Oct-20 10:33:55

How can sex based discrimination be tackled without sex disaggregated data

BabyLlamaZen Tue 20-Oct-20 10:34:13

I agree op. There is gender critical and then a proportion of the mumsnet crowd then morph into very real trasphobia. It's a real shame as it's one of the reasons being gender critical doesn't get any real respect or chance to be dealt with properly.

acatcalledjohn Tue 20-Oct-20 10:34:19

My phone is so fed up with threads like this that it is covering content with a picture of a sea lion grin

Menstruators, cervix havers, CIS, womxn...

All stuff to erase women in favour of trans women.


BabyLlamaZen Tue 20-Oct-20 10:35:46

And the conversation here quickly turns to how transpeople are secretly evil and doing it all for fetishism. A more balanced forum would be interesting!

Divebar Tue 20-Oct-20 10:36:28

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women

Please provide evidence of this

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