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12yo daughter’s friends, teachers, trans teaching assistant pushed her to gender identity and trans - conversion environment?

(52 Posts)
FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 15:37:38

There's a moving account by a mother in an article written by Debbie Hayton Powerful, scary, heartbreaking, terrifying. The world needs to hear more real life stories like this. It's worse than conversion therapy... AIBU to think the 12yo is effectively in a 'conversion environment'?

link to article
here's some of the script:

“She always wore T-shirts and shorts; she didn’t like to wear dresses and skirts after the age of six,” said Jennifer. “She was very active playing outdoors with cars and trucks, and dug holes. She wasn’t stereotypically masculine; she was just an ordinary androgynous kid. When she was seven, she had her hair cut short and some people mistook her for a boy. We thought that was cute and funny, just fine.”

But by the time her daughter was 11, very different messages were circulating at school. “Earnest progressive people were talking about gender identity and she started to apply that notion to herself.”

The pressure from school had been insidious. “They had a trans student and a non-binary teaching assistant. Because of the adult who also went by they/them, they had to have a pronoun circle every time a visitor came into the classroom. No wonder she wanted to choose something more interesting than she/her.

“I don’t think this would have happened without this intense focus on gender identity every single day.” 😩😭😤😡

“Whenever she was thinking about being trans she got a completely different personality. Instead of being carefree, she was miserable. She shrank in on herself; she was scared to talk to people, and she didn’t want to go places in case she was misgendered. She got a haunted look on her face and told me that I didn’t understand her. It was like night and day – when she wasn’t thinking about gender, she was a normal kid.”

The contrast to Jennifer’s own childhood was staggering, “Where were all these trans kids who were not allowed to be their true selves when I was in school in the 1980s? There were no suicides in my high school. We have to question why this is suddenly happening.”

her daughter desisted as the world was locking down earlier this year in response to Covid-19. The response to the pandemic removed her from day-to-day contact with other trans-identified children, and it also gave mother and child the space to have a frank conversation, initiated by Jennifer, that finally broke the transgender spell.

"She is mentally healthier – more authentic in herself and less afraid of others’ perceptions.”

Related thread:
The effect of lockdown on transitioning teen girls
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3952739-The-effect-of-lockdown-on-transitioning-teen-girls

OP’s posts: |
FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 17:05:34

so....

A happy normal child at school experiences an intense focus on gender identity, is pushed to choose a gender identity, turns into a miserable and scared child and wants to transition. In lockdown the child no longer has contact, breaks the trans spell and becomes happy again.

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022828MAN Tue 06-Oct-20 17:09:14

It really is terrifying. Why is this indoctrination allowed to be pushed, without question?!
I have young children and I already dread this being pushed on them when they're older. Horrific!

FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 17:33:15

In terms of the misery caused by “gender identity" pseudoscience in school, hopefully the new DfE guidance will help… at least in the UK. This case was in America but the themes are similar for parents around the world, especially 'wanting to support their child and going along with it'.

DfE guidance:
"Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material"

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Siameasy Tue 06-Oct-20 17:34:23

Oh interesting

Hasn’t it been said that no teachers have ever been involved in “transing” tomboys
Along with no one ever said born in the wrong body, no one ever prescribed puberty blockers to children on a whim and anyway they’re reversible, no one ever gave cross sex hormones to a child or said that gender stereotypes were in anyway involved in being “trans”

?

LadySeaThing Tue 06-Oct-20 17:36:10

Just awful. This is an especially important point I think:

“Where were all these trans kids who were not allowed to be their true selves when I was in school in the 1980s? There were no suicides in my high school. We have to question why this is suddenly happening.”

The fact is in the 1980s were were allowed to be our true selves without this pressure to have an identity and a label. I had short hair and was a tomboy, many girls had short hair and weren't tomboys. Some people might remark on me liking Airfix or whatever, but not really negatively - and even though I often got mistaken for a boy, that didn't mean anything. I was a girl who could do what she liked. 40 years ago. And now this terrible dogma is used to try to force kids into sexist categories with dangerous consequences.

All I can think is that this is so horrific, the shit HAS to hit the fan big time and everyone will wake up. That has to happen. There have been harmful trends and medical scandals in the past - they come to an end, because when they are this harmful it always comes to light eventually.

So glad this girl has had the support she needed from her mum and been able to question it.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Tue 06-Oct-20 17:43:26

It's like no one in a position of responsibility for schools has any memory of what it's like to be a child or teenager. I am nearly 60. I have never forgotten seeing some girl at my secondary school imitating another girl who she seemed to think was doing something mockworthy, and realising with a huge shock and that awful pit of the stomach dropping feeling, that I was the one she was imitating. 45ish years later, I can't remember who she was or anything about her, just that dreadful feeling that I'd done something that meant I didn't fit in.

Now, in my case, no great harm ensued, as I had reasonably good self-esteem and strong friendships with other girls who didn't seem to think I was a worthless figure of fun. One of my own children would have been a lot more isolated than I was, because she is on the autistic spectrum. The effect on her could have been very different.

We're going backwards, I feel. Gender stereotypes are so harmful. Why can't people in authority see this?

CamillasHardHat Tue 06-Oct-20 17:45:25

The fact is in the 1980s were were allowed to be our true selves without this pressure to have an identity and a label. I had short hair and was a tomboy, many girls had short hair and weren't tomboys

This was me, short hair, climbed trees, was described as a tomboy but also wore pink dresses. I didn't label myself as anything. My Mum did typical "male" jobs in the house because my Dad worked abroad a lot. She set the example that we could do anything, wire a plug, fix a car, hang wallpaper etc. We saw men in pop bands wearing make-up and men with long wavy hair. I am sure Madonna taught me you could change your look completely grin your identity wasn't fixed.

We had "boys" toys to play with too. We didn't have lots of pink (house full of girls) our best toys were Evil Knievel stunt motorbike thing and lego!

alexdgr8 Tue 06-Oct-20 17:48:01

there was a piece in the newspapers today about person called kiera, i think.
she is now early 20s and complaining bout having been given puberty blockers when she was early teen/ pre teen .
it involved the tavistock portman clinic.
we need to hear this other side, of people who feel they were rushed, steamrollered into such drastic steps, when they are barely competent to make such life changing decisions.
there also seems to be a lot of old-fashioned sexual stereotyping inherent in this thinking.
why cannot a girl wear trousers, dig holes, use meccano, have short hair etc, without it meaning she must really be a boy. this sounds like the pink and blue aisles in toy shops. such nonsense. i see a male student near here who strides out in his home-made skirt, because he likes it, very macho type fashion student. and it looks well on him, fits and floats.
because he likes to wear a skirt in hot weather, should he change into a girl. tosh. utter tosh. where is the freedom to be who how ever one wants.

FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 17:58:19

Another one in the UK this time. Hoe Valley School in Woking

Teaching assistant again... hmm

13-year-old was brainwashed into thinking she’s transgender'- ‘radicalising’ mentoring sessions

"the teaching assistant had no formal counselling qualifications and only received training from local charity Eikon that provides ‘LGBT+ awareness sessions’ for schools."

"‘Our daughter was egged on to feel that she’s a boy in a girl’s body,’"

"‘The teaching assistant also pointed her in the direction of a YouTube website of a trans activist, which featured a video where they showed off their mastectomy scars and told how well the operation had gone.’"

"the teaching assistant encouraged their daughter to change in a boy’s cubicle and that staff began using a male name for her."

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TomNookTheHustler Tue 06-Oct-20 18:02:19

I'm a teacher and I am challenging this doctrine in school. The teenagers in our care should be safe to experiment with their personalities and preferences without being labelled or, far worse, finding themselves on an irreversible medical pathway.

I have colleagues (younger) who previously bought the lie that being gender non-conforming means you were 'born in the wrong body', who I think have reconsidered these views in light of my questioning.

We will continue to tread very carefully in schools, especially in light of the recent government Sex and Relationships guidance.

TomNookTheHustler Tue 06-Oct-20 18:03:53

FindTheTruth

Another one in the UK this time. Hoe Valley School in Woking

Teaching assistant again... hmm

13-year-old was brainwashed into thinking she’s transgender'- ‘radicalising’ mentoring sessions

"the teaching assistant had no formal counselling qualifications and only received training from local charity Eikon that provides ‘LGBT+ awareness sessions’ for schools."

"‘Our daughter was egged on to feel that she’s a boy in a girl’s body,’"

"‘The teaching assistant also pointed her in the direction of a YouTube website of a trans activist, which featured a video where they showed off their mastectomy scars and told how well the operation had gone.’"

"the teaching assistant encouraged their daughter to change in a boy’s cubicle and that staff began using a male name for her."


This is grooming, the TA should not be working with children. It is also against government guidelines on what is appropriate for discussion in sex and relationships education.

Siameasy Tue 06-Oct-20 18:07:07

A second one.
We need to know who trained these teachers

FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 18:17:53

The teenagers in our care should be safe to experiment with their personalities and preferences without being labelled or, far worse, finding themselves on an irreversible medical pathway.

@TomNookTheHustler do you think it's possible to find out how many unqualified people in UK schools are giving unsupervised gender identity sessions?

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Siameasy Tue 06-Oct-20 18:20:39

Hang on the first example is in the USA

We need people to come forward who have had a similar experience to the Woking school and we need to know who trained the teachers in England and Wales.

The Woking school article mentioned a local charity who then deny being involved.

Anecdotally I know but if you talk to secondary school teachers or indeed anyone who attends secondary they will have “trans” boys in their school.

FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 18:22:27

The fact is in the 1980s were were allowed to be our true selves without this pressure to have an identity and a label. I had short hair and was a tomboy, many girls had short hair and weren't tomboys

This was me, short hair, climbed trees, was described as a tomboy but also wore pink dresses. I didn't label myself as anything

@CamillasHardHat @LadySeaThing like you I was a Tomboy in the 80s. if we were teenagers now and shown a 'gender identity spectrum' or radicalised by YouTube or teaching assistants... where would we be?

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BrassicaRabbit Tue 06-Oct-20 18:24:59

1990s grunge outfits were re-dyed black levi 501s, band t-shirt, plaid shirt, dm boots or para boots, army bags and a bleached undercut. For both sexes. And the kids into dance music - plenty of the girls wore tracksuits with their trainers. By the early 00s several of my male friends wore skirts on occasion.

These were hardly good times for women or gay people in other ways. But today's young people who identify as progressive are hardly ignorant of 1990s fashion as there's a lot of it being worn currently. It's just curious they've not wondered how we all managed to cope with breaking gender stereotypes without claiming to have changed sex in the past.

testing987654321 Tue 06-Oct-20 18:40:27

So this article, about how awful it is children being indoctrinated into thinking they can change sex, is written by a man who gets the children he teaches to call him Miss?

Have I got that right?

CamillasHardHat Tue 06-Oct-20 18:49:20

@CamillasHardHat *@LadySeaThing like you I was a Tomboy in the 80s. if we were teenagers now and shown a 'gender identity spectrum' or radicalised by YouTube or teaching assistants... where would we be?*

I don't think I would put myself as "girl" as I would have understood it back then. So that would be, played dress up in princess style dresses, or as a nurse, played with dolls, had tea parties, played house. "Boys" I supposed liked to get dirty, that was fine with me, climb trees, tick, run around, climb up the side of the swing frame at the park, hang upside down, stand up on a swing and go really high (I love rollercoasters) I wore trousers due to all the climbing.

So yeah, it would have been completely confusing as to where I identified. I wouldn't have said boy though, more toward boy. I think I should say that my younger sister is gay and has a wife, I think looking back she would have been persuaded into being trans.

But I think this is the problem, children now over-analyse it all. Instead of just being they have to make a decision about identity. So you get lesbians, and then black lesbians, then Jewish, black lesbians. We are just being divided more and more into smaller groups constantly pointing out differences instead of focusing on what makes us similar.

LadySeaThing Tue 06-Oct-20 19:10:39

Not only would I not have identified as a boy, it wouldn't have occurred to me to "identify" at all - I just was. "Identify" wasn't used in that sense. What seems to have developed is an atmosphere where extreme self-regard and navel-gazing about what labels and categories you belong to is seen as a good thing that gets you attention and praise. Whereas when I was a teen we'd have laughed at people like that.

Of course there were goths, punks, mods and "alternatives" grin and all those groups that could give you a sense of identity or "tribe", usually to do with music styles and an accompanying look. But no one in authority took you seriously or even worse, whisked you off to hospital to have some kind of alterations to make it permanent.

As Gasp0de says, it's as if the ridiculous po-faced seriousness over gender identity has made those in charge completely forget what kids and teenagers are like and how they naturally experiment with different identities and allegiances.

magicstar1 Tue 06-Oct-20 19:19:37

When I was a teenager all my friends were boys. I had short hair and dressed in jeans, boots, tee shirts etc. I got my hair cut by a barber. I remember my mates chatting up two girls who asked what school they went to. Then they asked me, and looked confused when I answered. They said “ but that’s a girls school?” We laughed and I convinced them I was female. No lasting damage, or trauma, or anyone telling me I was the wrong gender.
Now thirty years later, I still dress the same, and can only think with horror what I would be told if I was a teenager now.

persistentwoman Tue 06-Oct-20 19:22:44

One of the 'tools' that Stonewall and other lobby groups suggest is LGBT groups - usually mixed age so you put random children who sign up from years 9 - 13 (sometimes younger) in a group to discuss.... sexuality? identity? transitioning?.
How this doesn't raise safeguarding red flags I do not know. And as for staff being involved... it beggars belief.

FindTheTruth Tue 06-Oct-20 19:33:41

We are just being divided more and more into smaller groups constantly pointing out differences instead of focusing on what makes us similar.

❤️

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Kaiserin Tue 06-Oct-20 19:52:04

I dunno...

I think teenagers have always been very "tribal" in their sense of identity (= sense of belonging to a specific group, which defines who they are... and who they are not). Grunge, goth, emo, lolita, geek, jock, whatever...
Whatever brand you wear, whatever band you listen to, whatever team you support... What's cool, what's uncool... Teenagers have always cared waaaaay too much about that kind of shit.

It's part of growing up, I suppose? (... then there's weirdoes like myself, who absolutely hate being pigeon holed, and mostly identify as fitting in no specific box, not to sound interesting, but because that would mean putting limits and constraints on who they can be)

The weird thing is how this sense of identity seems nowadays mostly reduced to something as boring and unidimensional as "gender". This, I really cannot wrap my head around. I mean... why?? How did we get there? Who put this idea in their heads, and what's happened to all the previous identity trends? (is it... marketing?)

tinkywinkyshandbag Tue 06-Oct-20 20:31:25

Sounds a lot like my DD two years ago. Went from funny cheeky tomboy to miserable depressed self harming androgynous teen who thought she had gender dysphoria. I think social media was largely to blame plus very strong pro lgbt emphasis at school. Now she wears pretty dresses, has long purple hair, flicky eyeliner and piercings and looks gorgeous. What saved her was volunteering and getting involved with horses. Healthy outdoor activity and a different crowd to mix with. I do suspect she is actually gay, or bi. She's not telling us yet and that's okay but one things for sure she is definitely not a boy.

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