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Changing gender to get cheaper but ‘self‑identify’ scheme is off - Liz Truss anouncement expect soon says Sunday Times

(29 Posts)
stumbledin Sun 20-Sep-20 16:38:22

Well we've been here before, but this is what the Sunday Times is saying today 20 September 2020:

Quote: Plans to allow people to “self-identify” as a different gender will be formally dropped by the government this week.

Ministers have decided against the proposals, which were developed under Theresa May’s government, to allow transgender people to change their birth certificates without a medical diagnosis. Instead, they plan to reduce the cost of making such a change.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/changing-gender-to-get-cheaper-but-self-identify-scheme-is-off-0twtdw5fr

Sorry if this has been posted already - couldn't see it!

OP’s posts: |
TheFleegleHasLanded Sun 20-Sep-20 16:44:23

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4028391-Is-self-ID-finally-off-the-table?msgid=100170005

thinkingaboutLangCleg Sun 20-Sep-20 16:49:00

You can't hear good news too often! Big thanks to everyone who fought for this. Now to start reclaiming our single-sex spaces.

wine

RaspberrySkies Sun 20-Sep-20 16:50:25

🙌🙌🙌

Aesopfable Sun 20-Sep-20 18:53:51

It should be made cheaper - it should be made impossible. ‘Gender’ needs to be removed from all other laws and officialdom and replaced with sex. If sex is not relevant then sex should not be mentioned. There is not place for belief systems in law.

Aesopfable Sun 20-Sep-20 18:54:06

*should not

2Rebecca Sun 20-Sep-20 18:59:18

If it's made cheaper but you actually need one to get recognised as the gender you want to be for everything then you can't use expense as an excuse and it might stop the self ID through the back door stuff that's going on in changing rooms/ toilets/ guides/ schools etc now. If you are really bothered about this surely you'll jump through the hoops? I think a diagnosis of gender dysphoria should be essential because if you are a male who doesn't have gender dysphoria then why are you so desperate to get in to women's changing rooms?

IHeartSusanDey Sun 20-Sep-20 19:19:26

I'm in the North of Ireland and as the DUP like to follow the government in England (even when they're being Brexit lemmings) I shall take this as a win here too! Let's see how many men suddenly decide they don't 'feel' like women after all.

Aesopfable Sun 20-Sep-20 19:40:46

Alas, the SNP will now probably be reenergised to show they are different from England.

gaelgirl Sun 20-Sep-20 20:32:30

Sorry to say that the Scottish Government seems set on introducing 'self- identification' (although the final decision has been delayed until March) and it looks as though a majority of MSPs will support this in part due to the influence of the Cross Party Group (CPG) on LGBTI+ Issues.This group is made up of MSPs who are either openly L,G, or B, or 'allies' (supportive MSPs from across the Parliament) plus representatives from LGBT pressure and advocacy groups such as Stonewall, Equality Network, LGBT Youth, the Scottish Transgender Alliance and the Time for Inclusive Education (TIE) Group - The minutes of the CPG on LGBTI+ Issues from 2016-2020 can be viewed on the Scottish Government website and are well worth reading as they give an insight into how LGBTI+ demands are promoted within the Scottish Parliament.

Thisismytimetoshine Sun 20-Sep-20 20:33:27

Aesopfable

It should be made cheaper - it should be made impossible. ‘Gender’ needs to be removed from all other laws and officialdom and replaced with sex. If sex is not relevant then sex should not be mentioned. There is not place for belief systems in law.

Amen to that.

stumbledin Tue 22-Sep-20 00:36:30

Pink News is saying that since the Sunday Times article a petiton on the Parliament web site to carry throw reforms to the GRA (ie self identity) got over 60,000 signatures in a day.

With that number of signatures the Government has to make a formal response, and if it reaches 100,00 they have to discus it. (Currenlty 84,000)

Think in fact the petition just have been there since august as they are up for 6 months and this is due to expire in January 2021.

If you search for "Reform the Gender Recognition Act" on the petition.parliament.uk/ web site you should find it.

OP’s posts: |
ChattyLion Tue 22-Sep-20 00:48:52

Is there a repeal petition?

It should be made cheaper - it should be made impossible. ‘Gender’ needs to be removed from all other laws and officialdom and replaced with sex. If sex is not relevant then sex should not be mentioned. There is not place for belief systems in law.

YY What Aesop said. We don’t need gender in law or bureaucracy, just biological sex. Everyone would still be free to perform gender however they want to. or to DGAF about gender if they want to.

yourhairiswinterfire Tue 22-Sep-20 01:04:46

I'd have thought a public debate bringing the pros (if there are any) and cons of self id to the attention of the entire country would be the last thing they'd want.

thinkingaboutLangCleg Tue 22-Sep-20 08:16:36

I would sign a repeal GRA petition. As ChattyLion says, We don’t need gender in law or bureaucracy, just biological sex. Everyone would still be free to perform gender however they want to. or to DGAF about gender if they want to.

But at present I don’t think enough people understand what self-ID means in terms of child safeguarding and women’s rights. The trans lobby still has a stranglehold on most of the media.

OldCrony Tue 22-Sep-20 08:59:52

So, you'd only be allowed into single sex spaces if you have a gra?

How would that work? Say someone was actually challenged in the Ladies would they have to carry their copy of the gra and have to show it?

I'd still prefer third spaces to be honest.

OldCrony Tue 22-Sep-20 09:01:07

yourhairiswinterfire

I'd have thought a public debate bringing the pros (if there are any) and cons of self id to the attention of the entire country would be the last thing they'd want.



Totally. But I've noticed that they are not very bright.

zanahoria Tue 22-Sep-20 09:03:42

", We don’t need gender in law or bureaucracy, just biological sex "

I do not mind registering my sex with the state but not aspects of my personality

TheFleegleHasLanded Tue 22-Sep-20 09:12:12

That petition is being gamed, just like the consultation was. There is a twitter thread about it.

Read the responses to the petitions committee

twitter.com/hocpetitions/status/1308007609140641794?s=21

gardenbird48 Tue 22-Sep-20 09:24:06

OldCrony

So, you'd only be allowed into single sex spaces if you have a gra?

How would that work? Say someone was actually challenged in the Ladies would they have to carry their copy of the gra and have to show it?

I'd still prefer third spaces to be honest.

Having a Gender Recognition Certificate still doesn't override the single sex exemptions to certain spaces and services.

It is my understanding that the GRC does is not intended to work like an 'entry pass'. The GRC enables other paperwork/records updates although it seems like the number of updates not requiring that paperwork ie. driving licences might have been quietly expanded in recent years.

Notyoungbutscrappyandhungry Tue 22-Sep-20 09:29:02

I don’t want to stop someone from living a life that makes them happy if it doesn’t hurt anyone but I totally agree with this change in plan.
I wish they would also change birth certificates so they have sex and gender. The gender one should be able to be changed (with appropriate safeguards) but the sex one shouldn’t unless there is a documented mistake or an undiagnosed intersex condition that later medical evidence shows the wrong sex was entered on the birth certificate.

Otherwise your sex is your sex - however you identify. Then proper statistics could be kept as well.

OldCrony Tue 22-Sep-20 09:32:31

Having a Gender Recognition Certificate still doesn't override the single sex exemptions to certain spaces and services.

Thank you. I didn't know that. Some sanity buried in with the nonsense!

Aesopfable Tue 22-Sep-20 10:13:11

I wish they would also change birth certificates so they have sex and gender

How does that work then? “Congratulations Mrs Smith, you have a girl, which set of sex stereotypes would you like imposed on your daughter? You can chose between her being considered emotional and illogical, wear impractical clothing, and expected to be kind to boys, or you can chose for her to be a leader, inventive, active and have others give way to her? Of course if you chose the latter then she will also be expected to undergo experimental medical treatment that will leave her sterile, sexually dysfunctional, and a medical patient for life.”

MilleniumHallsWalledGarden Tue 22-Sep-20 10:14:46

Looks like Liz Truss's statement is out: https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1308331841976401920?s=20

Aesopfable Tue 22-Sep-20 10:20:48

The Equality Act is reserved legislation. Does that prevent Scotland going it alone as they will try to?

I will not celebrate until the GRA is repealed and all the misrepresentation of the law is overturned.

Nonetheless I am very pleased we are not going further down this track.

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