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It's an AIBU but it belongs here - Stonewall

(137 Posts)
Doyoumind Tue 08-Sep-20 18:18:20

I know some will say this doesn't belong on this board but I believe it is a response to certain GC groups.

Stonewall is trending with #IfirstknewIwaslgbtq, saying that people don't believe it is possible at age 12. The cynic in me says they are going at this angle in response to those who say children can't know they are trans. Of course I believe people can know they are gay by 12. I can even accept people know they are trans by 12. Being gay at 12 may have a huge impact on you socially but being trans at 12 and starting on a medical pathway is something entirely different and it is dishonest to conflate the two.

OP’s posts: |
gardenbird48 Tue 08-Sep-20 18:21:19

I think this is to do with Allison Bailey's tweet about a survey being targeted at age 12-23 year old black lgbtetcx people with a payment of £15 promised for completing the survey.
They are asking children to dm them and then presumably give out personal details to allow payment - safeguarding red flag ahoy!!

yourhairiswinterfire Tue 08-Sep-20 18:26:06

I think garden is right, it was because of Allison Bailey bringing up the safeguarding issue by lumping in 12 year olds with 23 year olds.

They (Exist Loudly, their group) told Allison to fuck off hmm so not the kind of people I'd like my child contacting, tbh.

Doyoumind Tue 08-Sep-20 18:26:58

I know about Allison's tweet. But it's a dishonest representation of the issue Allison has and is whipping up a backlash against her based on a false premise because of the issues between Stonewall and herself and her views.

OP’s posts: |
Floisme Tue 08-Sep-20 18:43:19

I saw the thread and I thought Allison made it perfectly clear that it was putting 12 year olds in the same group as 23 year olds that was her concern. If Stonewall are seriously trying to imply otherwise it's because she's formidable and probably scares the crap out of them.

MillyMollyFarmer Tue 08-Sep-20 18:45:14

But it's a dishonest representation of the issue

Which is pretty much stonewall in a nutshell these days. It’s what they do. Deliberately. They gotta earn those donations!

AnyOldPrion Tue 08-Sep-20 18:52:26

“is whipping up a backlash […] based on a false premise”

That’s their modus operandi. They pretend that “trans“ is wholly equivalent to gay or lesbian and that anyone objecting now would have been a homophobe a few years back.

The fact that many of those objecting now weren’t homophobes, but homosexual, and the very obvious fact that “being trans” is wholly dissimilar to being gay or lesbian is brushed aside as a minor irrelevance.

This particular episode might have been stimulated by Alison’s tweet, but it’s not a new technique.

AnyOldPrion Tue 08-Sep-20 18:53:45

I apologise, I think I missed the point! Still, never mind. At least it wasn’t deliberate!

ThinEndoftheWedge Tue 08-Sep-20 18:55:39

What they are doing is telling 12 year old children who are growing into sexual maturity that 20 something men & women are their peers. They are not. It helps facilitate grooming & abuse.

This is what she has tweeted.

The sun is shining with Allison.

Kazakaren Tue 08-Sep-20 18:58:59

Obviously its possible to know you are gay at age 12. Maybe even trans. But a child that age is not able to make the life changing decision to change sex, take puberty blockers, and embark on a pathway that will damage their physical and potentially mental health longer term. Children rely on adults to make those decisions for them in their best interests. They rely on adults to keep them safe. It's time some adults fucking grew up and started adulting properly.

yourhairiswinterfire Tue 08-Sep-20 19:28:18

It's time some adults fucking grew up and started adulting properly.

Absolutely. Case in point, the group Allison was talking about just tweeted this. "Suck your mums". Haven't heard that since I was in school.

Methinks Allison has a point... hmm

merrymouse Tue 08-Sep-20 19:35:47

What they are doing is telling 12 year old children who are growing into sexual maturity that 20 something men & women are their peers. They are not. It helps facilitate grooming & abuse.

Absolutely!!!!

Regardless of whether a 12 year old knows they are gay or heterosexual or trans or wants to join the army, they shouldn't be lumped in with 23 year olds.

MichelleofzeResistance Tue 08-Sep-20 19:38:47

I have one or two gay friends - mostly male - who say they knew from early on that they were gay. Many other friends who spent a lot of their teens uncertain about their sexuality, and came to varying positions before adulthood.

None of them were asked to state and commit to a firm decision, it made no practical difference if they continued to hold to their original feelings or if their position varied and changed over time as they matured. Certainly none of them were considering making permanent, very seriously life impacting decisions to their body, health, development and reproductive future based on it.

ChattyLion Tue 08-Sep-20 19:42:05

What they are doing is telling 12 year old children who are growing into sexual maturity that 20 something men & women are their peers. They are not. It helps facilitate grooming & abuse.

She’s absolutely right. Allison is an absolute legend to keep pushing like this.

Actual reputable, ethical organisations would never push, support or follow anti-safeguarding policies or politics in order to secure funding for themselves.

OvaHere Tue 08-Sep-20 20:00:12

Under 16s should not be giving out personal details online to total strangers. 16-18 is a bit more debatable I suppose (but still less than ideal) but for anyone of school age it's a big safeguarding issue.

We get countless letters from school about online safety that cover exactly this and presumably the pupils get lessons about it in school too. It doesn't matter how a child identifies either or what they consider their sexuality to be.

I find it fairly horrifying that some people seem to think that safeguarding doesn't apply to all children. All 12 year olds are first and foremost children.

gardenbird48 Tue 08-Sep-20 20:10:04

yourhairiswinterfire

*It's time some adults fucking grew up and started adulting properly.*

Absolutely. Case in point, the group Allison was talking about just tweeted this. "Suck your mums". Haven't heard that since I was in school.

Methinks Allison has a point... hmm

Yet again, an organisation with a worrying approach to safeguarding proves exactly why we should be worried about their approach to safeguarding!

EyesOpening Tue 08-Sep-20 20:13:04

Joined Twitter June 2020 with no website link, there is an Instagram page but only a link to a google form. I've never heard of them before, not that I would but how would you know they're their legitimate SM pages (fake clone pages crop up all over SM) even if it is a legitimate organisation?

yourhairiswinterfire Tue 08-Sep-20 20:18:01

Yet again, an organisation with a worrying approach to safeguarding proves exactly why we should be worried about their approach to safeguarding!

It will probably come as a surprise to no one that Mermaids and Stonewall have re-tweeted this org.

Gladysthesphinx Tue 08-Sep-20 20:30:29

I'm very naive - this group supported by Mermaids and Stonewall - what do they mean by telling critics to "suck their mums"? My first thought was that it was a seriously gross under-age incestous oral sex reference, but surely even Mermaids would not sink so low as to admit to supporting that, in public at least?
Can anyone enlighten me?

FloralBunting Tue 08-Sep-20 20:31:28

Never ceases to horrifying and astonish that some in the self styled 'LGBT+ community' care so bloody little about the wellbeing and safeguarding of young people who are L, G, B or even T. It's like they are determined to create loopholes specifically to make those particular children more vulnerable. It's infuriating.

ArabellaScott Tue 08-Sep-20 20:37:07

They appear to be asking children from 14 upwards to fill in a form giving name, address and other personal information, plus asking if they can take pictures. This is a pretty straightforward safeguarding issue, I don't think the sexual orientation or identity even has much to do with it.

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdL-G9RJ6HezFn42JN8MFTMna61foNhAuwI2A9-EPp04qYpPw/viewform

ArabellaScott Tue 08-Sep-20 20:38:48

- to be clear, this might be a different form from the one they're currently asking for 12 years plus to fill in, but it's one that the founder is sharing on her instagram.

Safeguarding fail. Honestly, can she not see that Allison is actually trying to help her out, here?

gardenbird48 Tue 08-Sep-20 21:14:10

Would anyone know what the law relating to surveys etc - obviously GDPR is a consideration but presumably there are other regulations especially for contacting children?

Poota Tue 08-Sep-20 22:17:00

ArabellaScott

They appear to be asking children from 14 upwards to fill in a form giving name, address and other personal information, plus asking if they can take pictures. This is a pretty straightforward safeguarding issue, I don't think the sexual orientation or identity even has much to do with it.

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdL-G9RJ6HezFn42JN8MFTMna61foNhAuwI2A9-EPp04qYpPw/viewform

No, but when these glaring safeguarding alarm bell situations arise, as they consistently do with these organisations, the potential LGB or T status of the children involved is often invoked as a reason why these alarm bells should be ignored.

AlbusSirius Tue 08-Sep-20 22:35:46

It's bollocks to say that many youth groups are from 12/13 to 21/25. They aren't. Scouts and Girl Guides are youth groups for those type of ages, but they are strictly divided by age, and there is safeguarding and protections written in to ensure that children and adults don't mix, or if they do in limited circumstances they are separated by age for many activities.

No adult leader in such an organisation would communicate on social media with a child under 16 (18 in some cases) without parental supervision.

No adult stranger should ever look for any personal details from a child under 18 - that includes an email address, a phone number, certainly bank account details, so how children completing these surveys could be paid baffles me. Though that is, quite frankly, the least of my concerns hmm

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