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Tim Farron, ex- Lib Dem leader backs JKR

(40 Posts)
Xanthangum Thu 16-Jul-20 22:37:14

"Take the recent Twitter storm surrounding JK Rowling. The first people to defend her should be the liberals. Not because they agree with her — they may think she is utterly wrong — but because liberalism fights for the rights of those with different views to be heard. It takes time to listen, seeks to understand other perspectives and only then — if both sides maintain their positions — agree to disagree respectfully."

Well.

From here: medium.com/*@tim*_farron/this-liberal-will-defend-real-liberalism-f45aa689cfbf

OP’s posts: |
dangerrabbit Thu 16-Jul-20 22:38:21

Good for him!

Al1Langdownthecleghole Thu 16-Jul-20 22:53:42

I'm hearing a bit of a "be kind" undertone in the description of the gentler, Christian way, but at least he finishes with Orwell.

FloralBunting Thu 16-Jul-20 23:07:34

This is what liberalism is supposed to be and always was before. Farron knows this better than most, given how he was cancelled so comprehensively for his personal beliefs on equal marriage. He held a classic liberal position of believing something privately based in his religion, but understanding that his personal beliefs could not override the consensus of society, which had been reached via rational debate and evidence.

I don't even agree with his personal beliefs about equal marriage rights, but I still thought he was a man of integrity who did not seek the detriment of anyone in his politics. But he thought-crimed and if you saw how his personal beliefs were utterly unacceptable even though he was a decent sort, and you didn't see the obsessive cancel culture witch hunts of today coming, then I don't know what to tell you.

CloudsCoveredTheSky Thu 16-Jul-20 23:11:40

@Al1Langdownthecleghole it's not really "be kind", it's classic liberalism. Live and let live, let everyone be heard. Be kind is more like be quiet (unless we agree with everything you say.)

RedToothBrush Thu 16-Jul-20 23:11:51

Farron has always struck me as a proper liberal type. Worth remembering he has fallen foul of his party's puritans before too.

Always had time for him. Met him once. Nice chap.

Will be interesting to see how long it is before he backtracks (I am expecting him to do some sort of backtrack - cos of his 'nice guy' persona - but actually I think he's very much in the JKR camp from his previous comments on liberalism with a small l)

Interesting timing given the party leadership election going on.

Layla will be a disaster for the party if she gets the nod and I suspect Farron knows this too...

TeaAndStrumpets Thu 16-Jul-20 23:23:53

Already a comment chiding him for having compassion for JKR rather than the poor marginalised transfolk.
Way to totally miss the point!

RedToothBrush Thu 16-Jul-20 23:32:56

Oh I'm sure we will see some fauning on this one to appease his 'fanclub' at LGBT libdems and the radical association.

It is nice to see this at least. Someone in the party who has vocally talked about what liberalism is (and isn't). I think that's the first time I've seen it in about 3 years from a LD.

I thought they'd all forgotten what liberalism is!

FloralBunting Thu 16-Jul-20 23:36:47

I think they probably have, tbh. Most people I speak to about liberalism now, when they describe it, are not describing liberalism at all, they are describing licence.

That is both people who call themselves liberals and people who are their opponents.

Seriously, labels mean fuck all these days.

RedToothBrush Thu 16-Jul-20 23:44:11

I know. I call it having a 'Liberal identity' rather than being a liberal.

To see just 1 doing a proper explanation and defence of liberalism is better than I thought the situation was though! Half a spine is better than no spine.

Apileofballyhoo Thu 16-Jul-20 23:47:54

At least somebody is making some attempt to say what things are and aren't. If we could have a few essays on what right wing means, what communism means, what left wing means, what socialism means, what fascism means, what libertarian means and so on, maybe we'd get somewhere.

Ereshkigalangcleg Thu 16-Jul-20 23:50:08

Oh the many TRAs in the Lib Dems are going to be calling for his head.

FloralBunting Thu 16-Jul-20 23:52:54

Oh, for the mind melting powers of the woke where one could get rid of 'problematic language' and erase just one phrase from the lexicon - 'I identify as'.

I get so bloody Yoda when I hear it now. You either are or you aren't. There is no 'identify'.

BadgertheBodger Thu 16-Jul-20 23:55:28

I think Tim Farron is great. Good constituency MP who actually has (had? I’ve moved and can’t remember if he’s still in post) a decent grasp on reality and does try hard on behalf of his area. I don’t agree with his views at all on equal marriage but if there were more decent people in the world who can talk through an idea and agree to disagree then everything wouldn’t look half as bleak.

bitheby Thu 16-Jul-20 23:55:57

Good for him. I met him once too. I didn't vote for him for leader - I wanted Norman Lamb - but I respect him a lot. He is backing Ed. I agree with the poster who said that Layla would be a disaster.

TransScandal Thu 16-Jul-20 23:57:01

His head rolled ages ago for having a personal opinion or belief, despite him not allowing it to influence his professional life.
I'm glad he's still got a voice.

GrimDamnFanjo Fri 17-Jul-20 01:19:00

Hmm used to know him really well. I think that's as far as he can stick his neck out on this matter which is a shame but he'll be toast within the party if he goes any further.
But then again maybe he no longer cares?

Mollyollydolly Fri 17-Jul-20 02:33:06

Good for him. Always had a lot of time for Tim. A proper Liberal unlike most of the party. A decent man.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 Fri 17-Jul-20 02:42:32

I’m not even sure what the liberals are now. Infiltrated?

Alisonjabub Fri 17-Jul-20 02:47:31

Xanthangum

"Take the recent Twitter storm surrounding JK Rowling. The first people to defend her should be the liberals. Not because they agree with her — they may think she is utterly wrong — but because liberalism fights for the rights of those with different views to be heard. It takes time to listen, seeks to understand other perspectives and only then — if both sides maintain their positions — agree to disagree respectfully."

Well.

From here: medium.com/**@tim**_farron/this-liberal-will-defend-real-liberalism-f45aa689cfbf

Good God, the liberals absolutely do not fight for this. They brought the whole cancel culture to the forefront. Antifa? Agreeing to disagree unfortunately is no longer seen as a liberal trait.

Xanthangum Fri 17-Jul-20 04:46:57

Yup, as expected. Apology, "perhaps that wasn't the right example to use'

twitter.com/timfarron/status/1283883880672632832?s=20

Followed by: "Thank you for the apology but I'm afraid it's not enough on this occasion. When the debate is between an oppressed group wanting basic and fundamental rights to exist publicly and happily and a group that wants to stop that, there is no grey area. I hope you can appreciate that. "

"If you'd like to take this as a learning experience my inbox is always open."

...and in conversation with someone else:

'I'd rather him come to his senses, apologise, and learn from it, than to be kicked out but still feel justified for his beliefs, but if he isn't willing to learn I dont see how his views are compatible with our party.'

No awareness of liberal history, tolerance, compassion and understanding, just - kick him out for wrongdoing. Without plurality of ideas, and party can only stagnate. The LibDems will crumble to dust if they can't see this.

OP’s posts: |
cheeseismydownfall Fri 17-Jul-20 06:16:29

Jesus that "apology" is so despressing. He literally says in his essay that [liberalism may mean that I am] naturally going to feel hurt and threatened by the existence of your views, and you by mine. He says that, in black and white.

Why the fuck are trans people somehow magically exempt from the challenging parts of liberalism? What would Orwell have to say about that, Tim?

Collidascope Fri 17-Jul-20 06:29:32

Followed by: "Thank you for the apology but I'm afraid it's not enough on this occasion. When the debate is between an oppressed group wanting basic and fundamental rights to exist publicly and happily and a group that wants to stop that, there is no grey area. I hope you can appreciate that."

Like, for example, the oppressed group that is and has for thousand of years been women, wanting the right to single-sex spaces in public, now being told by a bunch of men that we can no longer have them? Yeah, I agree there is no grey area. It's pure abuse, isn't it?
Whoever wrote those words can get to absolute fuck.

RedToothBrush Fri 17-Jul-20 09:51:52

It was always going to go that way, precisely because Farron is a nice guy.

The party has completely forgotten what purpose it serves and has lost all direction at all. I expect it to bomb even further in the national polls and I suspect things will start to go south in the locals at some point as all the older old skool liberals die out.

I've told the LDs to fuck off more times than I care to count because they've been taken over by gender extremists. The number of TRAs with a huge amount of power and influence in the party is far larger than the number of women with power already.

Its a really sorry sight.

Kit19 Fri 17-Jul-20 09:53:30

There’s no way he didn’t know he’d have to issue a grovelling apology given how much the LibDems are dominated by TRA

I find it interesting therefore that he wrote about it at all.....

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