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Dr Jordan Peterson

(233 Posts)
12boo Thu 02-Jul-20 12:24:57

I believe I am a feminist
But I seem to be a fan of Jordan Peterson. Are these states totally incompatible?

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Wasabiaddiction Thu 02-Jul-20 12:34:26

Same here.

I think that his focus on getting men to "clean their room" and grow up is of the benefit of women.

Doyoumind Thu 02-Jul-20 12:35:59

Don't like the man at all.

SarahTancredi Thu 02-Jul-20 12:36:40

I think that whatever his views and their compatibility, his contribution to beginners like myself , in attempting to debate subjects, proving that you do indeed need to educate yourself a little, and develope your skills in articulating your point , well hes a useful starting point.

He demonstrates nicely that going into a debate armed only with feelings mantras and a false sense of " I've got all the men behind me patting my back" will not win an argument.

12boo Thu 02-Jul-20 12:38:02

Wasabiaddiction

Same here.

I think that his focus on getting men to "clean their room" and grow up is of the benefit of women.


Yes I agree
I doubt I agree with everything he says but overall he seems totally considered in his views. I really admire the way he speaks and I he gets misquoted a lot

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TBHno Thu 02-Jul-20 12:39:53

He's one of the only prolific Canadians speaking out against gender ideology, I believe? That takes bravery.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Thu 02-Jul-20 12:40:12

I think he’s right on some things and wrong on others. It’s not a problem-we don’t have to be tribal!

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings Thu 02-Jul-20 12:43:24

Most of what I've seen him say is overtly sexist I'm afraid. His main talking point seems to be that 1) women are biologically predetermined to be better at caring jobs and men are biologically predetermined to be better at maths, engineering, and being the boss. 2) The kind of work women are innately drawn to is objectively easier, less valuable, and lower skilled than the work men are innately drawn to, therefore those jobs will always command a lower wage. 3) Men will therefore always earn more than women and there's nothing anyone can or should do about it, the wage gap is feminist progaganda, and women would be happier if they could just learn to accept their naturally place in society. This of course, all backed up by a massive dose of evangelical Christianity. Not much for a feminist to find common ground with there I'm afraid. Even the trans stuff is coming from a different place - we want to unhitch gender from sex completely and let men be freely feminine, he opposes transgenderism because he wants gender to be inseparable from sex and thinks everyone should stay in their original box. The man is odious.

WakeAndBake Thu 02-Jul-20 12:45:44

His tips on wage negotiation have netted me money. I am terrible at charging people money for my freelance services

Everytime I give a quote I try to imagine Jordan shouting at me to be aggressive and ask for more rather than always doing the work so cheaply.

And the best thing is NOT ONCE has anyone complained about a quote being 10-25% more than I would previously given. They still smile and say what a great price!

Thanks a lot Dr Petersen!

picklemewalnuts Thu 02-Jul-20 12:49:56

I think we are at risk of fulfilling his sexism by not listening to him. He is keen on agency, that we need to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don't think he should speak for women, and when he does it makes me cringe. He is good at telling men to shape up.

TBHno Thu 02-Jul-20 12:51:21

I don't think he should speak for women either; however, very few women in Canada are criticizing the trans ideology. I'm just glad that someone is doing it.

nauticant Thu 02-Jul-20 12:53:40

A curate's egg. But I don't tend to have the mental energy to expend on him.

12boo Thu 02-Jul-20 12:56:47

I'm still learning. Watching a few of his interviews lately
I find him
Fascinating to watch

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Roseburn Thu 02-Jul-20 12:57:49

He's useful.

My previously TWAW son has been watching his videos( and from there, Posey Parker on Triggernometry) and changed his mind.

He said to me 2 weeks ago - mum I agree with you now.

And just yesterday morning we were having a big conversation about Jordan Peterson's views on women, and at the end of it he said - ' as a young man, how can I help?'

So I'm not going to knock JP.

12boo Thu 02-Jul-20 12:58:27

a curate's egg
I love that term

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User56781234 Thu 02-Jul-20 13:09:42

I've yet to watch his videos but read his book, '12 Rules for Life: An Antidotes to Chaos' as I'm more or less his polar opposite: humanist, feminist and left wing. I found it really accessible and thought provoking even if I didn't agree with a lot of what he had to say. It's essentially a very tough minded self help book. He's a firm believer in everyone stepping up and taking responsibility for their lives and putting in the required hard work.

12boo Thu 02-Jul-20 13:11:19

I used
To think I'm left wing but am less convinced these days

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Microwaveoven Thu 02-Jul-20 13:13:50

I love that man like a father. Mine took his own life when I was 5. A lifetime of be feeling worthless. (with a lot of other crap thrown my way) Then JP comes along! The dad I always needed.
I don't agree with everything that comes out his mouth. But his 12 rules for life are great.
Don't stop children skateboarding
Don't let your children do things you don't like
And clean your own bastard house before judging others grin

CoffeeTeaChocolate Thu 02-Jul-20 13:13:56

I think that one of his points are that women in general score higher on “agreeableness” and that this trait is less optimal for career development and salary negotiations.

User56781234 Thu 02-Jul-20 13:14:36

Found it! Here's an excellent and very funny Digested Read of Peterson's book. He liked it so much he re-tweeted it.

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/28/12-rules-for-life-an-antidote-to-chaos-by-jordan-b-peterson-digested-read

SarahTancredi Thu 02-Jul-20 13:14:45

To think I'm left wing but am less convinced these days

Dont let the current pushing of boundaries and being forced to accept anything and everything or be labelled right wing or bigoted , make you stop feeling that being a relatively normal human being with normal reasonable views stop you from thinking you cant be left wing. Many of us are on the left. We havent changed. They just want us to think we have

Shawbles Thu 02-Jul-20 13:15:49

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

Most of what I've seen him say is overtly sexist I'm afraid. His main talking point seems to be that 1) women are biologically predetermined to be better at caring jobs and men are biologically predetermined to be better at maths, engineering, and being the boss. 2) The kind of work women are innately drawn to is objectively easier, less valuable, and lower skilled than the work men are innately drawn to, therefore those jobs will always command a lower wage. 3) Men will therefore always earn more than women and there's nothing anyone can or should do about it, the wage gap is feminist progaganda, and women would be happier if they could just learn to accept their naturally place in society. This of course, all backed up by a massive dose of evangelical Christianity. Not much for a feminist to find common ground with there I'm afraid. Even the trans stuff is coming from a different place - we want to unhitch gender from sex completely and let men be freely feminine, he opposes transgenderism because he wants gender to be inseparable from sex and thinks everyone should stay in their original box. The man is odious.

A lot of what you say only shows how what he says is misrepresented.

I don't believe he has ever said :

1) women are biologically predetermined to be better at caring jobs and men are biologically predetermined to be better at maths, engineering, and being the boss

He has said that the psychological data of the big 5 model suggests that women are more empathetic / caring etc.. "more interested in people" is the way he often describes it, and that this explains why they go into nursing / caring roles. This is contrasted that the same model shows that men tend to be "more interested in things", hence the preponderance of men in engineering stuff.

2) the kind of work women are innately drawn to is objectively easier, less valuable, and lower skilled than the work men are innately drawn to, therefore those jobs will always command a lower wage

I have never heard him say these jobs are objectively easier, less valuble (in a moral sense) or lower skilled. What he says is that caring roles are inherently unscalable (you can only care for a certain number of people at any one time) and this limits the potential revenue, whereas engineering type roles (say, software) can scale up to a much greater degree to earn greater revenue.

he opposes transgenderism because he wants gender to be inseparable from sex and thinks everyone should stay in their original box

Again, I've never got this from his work. He has always framed it as a free speech issue, not that trans people shouldn't exist or don't have the right to exist. He has expressed plenty of times that he has used his trans students' preferred pronouns when asked, but objects to being legally coerced into doing so.

picklemewalnuts Thu 02-Jul-20 13:34:07

12boo

I'm still learning. Watching a few of his interviews lately
I find him
Fascinating to watch


He is fascinating to watch. I could get a crush if I wasn't too grown up and sensible. He's eminently rational, which I find attractive.

The only thing is, when he's just in general conversation as opposed to delivering well thought out seminars, he <whispers> a bit long winded and boring.

picklemewalnuts Thu 02-Jul-20 13:35:17

I must push my son toward him- also uberrational, DS2 thinks soft subjects aren't worth studying and we should all be doing stem.

12boo Thu 02-Jul-20 13:52:23

microwaveoven sorry daffodil

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