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Girlguiding diversity and inclusion audit

(28 Posts)
AgnesBadenPowell Mon 29-Jun-20 12:55:32

Hello, I haven't been on here for ages and feel a bit bad for coming straight in to ask a favour - but it is important.

Girlguiding is running a diversity and inclusion audit and is inviting parents, leaders and Rangers to apply to join focus groups to discuss policy. The deadline to apply is 5PM TOMORROW, 30 JUNE.

This is unique opportunity to discuss gender identity. I don't think GGHQ has given more than a cursory glance at the potential risks of adopting gender self identification and the impact that has on D&I: what is the impact on lesbian members? Members with ASD? Girls who need or want guaranteed single sex accommodation? Is this policy putting off girls from communities already underrepresented in Guiding? How do girls with additional needs feel about the prospect of a male who identifies as a woman carrying out personal care?

Obviously I can't apply to join a focus group but if you know a parent or volunteer who would be willing to raise this issue, please send them this link:

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/events-and-opportunities/event-and-opportunity-finder/help-us-make-girlguiding-a-more-equal-diverse-and-inclusive-community/?utmsource=twitter&utmm_medium=social-media&utmcontent=external&utmm_campaign=diversityaudit

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drspouse Mon 29-Jun-20 13:05:46

Ex-Guider here - it strikes me that a "potential parent" i.e. you have a DD that would join/has left might be able to get on the group though they may check membership numbers.

AgnesBadenPowell Mon 29-Jun-20 14:06:19

Bumping. Leaders should have a received an email and possibly parents too. Please consider taking part!

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Aesopfable Mon 29-Jun-20 14:15:51

Now they area mixed-sex organisation, surely they need to look carefully at the huge under-representation of boys?

picklemewalnuts Mon 29-Jun-20 14:20:48

I'm not eligible. But hopefully some eligible people we pop up soon.

OliveKitteridgeAgain Mon 29-Jun-20 21:20:39

Hi Agnes. I've signed up for this. I'm a leader, parent and BAME, so hopefully I'll be asked to take part. My fellow unit leader and I have already made it clear to HQ that their inclusion policy breaches the Equalities Act, and we won't implement it. I'll report back if they contact me for the survey. Wish me luck!

Thinkingabout1t Mon 29-Jun-20 21:29:11

My fellow unit leader and I have already made it clear to HQ that their inclusion policy breaches the Equalities Act, and we won't implement it

Good work, Olive, and good luck.

Igmum Mon 29-Jun-20 21:30:06

Parent of ex-guide here. I've signed up and will let you know if I get picked. Thanks for flagging this up OP

tiredanddangerous Mon 29-Jun-20 21:31:44

I’m a leader (and a parent) and I had no idea this was happening. I’ll sign up.

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito Mon 29-Jun-20 21:35:52

I'm not eligible under any of the criteria. Unless I self define as LGBTQ for the day? I've never yet seen a definition of Q that make sense. I could be that.

tiredanddangerous Mon 29-Jun-20 21:37:48

Having looked more carefully I’m not eligible under those criteria either. I’ll give it a try anyway.

AgnesBadenPowell Tue 30-Jun-20 13:09:22

Olive and Igmum: thank you both so much for signing up. I will keep my fingers crossed that your applications are successful. If you need anything from me, or want to talk through possible points to raise then please feel free to DM me. I'd be happy to help.

Applications close at 5pm tonight so still time to sign up.

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JellySlice Tue 30-Jun-20 13:27:57

Now there's an interesting dichotomy for them, Olive. Do they include you in their diversity survey because of your BAME origin, or exclude you because you have denounced one of their 'diversity' policies?

(How come they haven't already booted you, like they did Agnes?)

KatieAlcock Tue 30-Jun-20 13:53:35

@JellySlice there have been quite a few leaders who've approached me privately and who have not (my crime) posted one social media post pointing out the law.

loveyouradvice Tue 30-Jun-20 14:36:57

Bumping ... SO IMPORTANT ... don't apologies Agnes it is great to see you back on her....

I don't qualify but am keen to support in any way I can

JellySlice Tue 30-Jun-20 15:32:22

Trial by social media. angry

SheldontheWonderSchlong Tue 30-Jun-20 15:41:57

I've registered, although my daughter finished Rainbows last summer and now goes to Cubs (I thought I'd rather she went to an openly mixed-sexed group rather than a mixed-sexed by stealth organisation) so I'm not sure I'll get picked. Also I only tick the low-income box so not really 'diverse'.

I asked for a one to-one interview as group things aren't really my thing.

I'll let you know if I get selected. Thanks for drawing attention to it.

OliveKitteridgeAgain Tue 30-Jun-20 16:44:39

JellySlice

Now there's an interesting dichotomy for them, Olive. Do they include you in their diversity survey because of your BAME origin, or exclude you because you have denounced one of their 'diversity' policies?

(How come they haven't already booted you, like they did Agnes?)

I don't know whether they will cross reference email complainants against the names put forward for the survey.

I think there were quite a few complaints, and they made examples of Agnes and Katie based on the "social media breach" line of attack (please correct me if I'm wrong there, Katie and Agnes). They probably realised they couldn't summarily boot out everyone. Volunteer leaders are like needles in a haystack. We never received anything other than a stock reply of the "we are right, you are wrong, go away" variety.

Obviously, now self ID has been kicked into the long grass, they haven't got a leg to stand on, their policies breach the EQA. I'll be interested to see if the diversity survey continues to push for trans girls, or whether that'll be quietly done away with. What of any trans girls already within GG though? If they are allowed to stay (poor things, not blaming them all for this mess), then they have to accept all boys.

Agnes, thank you, I may well be in touch. We'll just have to see if I get chosen. I've never met another leader from a BAME background on any of the training courses, and have no idea how many of us there are to choose from.

ChickenonaMug Tue 30-Jun-20 17:11:20

I have requested to take part as I wish to discuss the inclusion in guiding of girls who have been subjected to sexual abuse. I have explained that when I was a Brownie and Guide, I was also a child being subjected to sexual abuse and that Guides, being single-sex, was very important to me. I have said that I want to discuss my concerns that guiding is no longer providing this environment for vulnerable girls. This would result in these girls excluding themselves. I have requested a one-to-one interview as I would not wish to discuss this in a focus group. I had to all that in the ‘Do you have any accessibility needs’ box.

My daughter is a Guide in a very small pack.

RandomMess Tue 30-Jun-20 17:36:39

Missed this I would have signed up sad

MrsFionaCharming Tue 30-Jun-20 19:01:17

I’m a leader, I’ve applied. Trying to decide what tactic I’d take to raise it in a focus group.

glitterfarts Tue 30-Jun-20 19:15:41

Missed this , I would've signed up. I was a volunteer leader. Quit due to this policy. I have 2 DD who will not be going on any camps that aren't just our packs due to this policy.
I know our local leaders disagree with it.

FeminismandWomensFights Tue 30-Jun-20 20:39:43

BUMP. Link still accept entries

AgnesBadenPowell Thu 02-Jul-20 16:34:41

Well, that's funny. The link to the focus group application form was working yesterday but has now been taken down. All the tweets from GGHQ about this have been deleted and the link to the webpage doesn't work. https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/events-and-opportunities/event-and-opportunity-finder/help-us-make-girlguiding-a-more-equal-diverse-and-inclusive-community/

Anyway, thanks everyone who applied. This audit could be a valuable piece of work and while I don't want other important issues to be sidelined to taken over, I really hope that some of the applicants here are picked and feel able to bring up the trans policy and how it conflicts with the needs/rights of other protected groups. Please let me know if you need help to prepare for this.

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AgnesBadenPowell Thu 02-Jul-20 16:42:15

@OliveKitteridgeAgain

I think there were quite a few complaints, and they made examples of Agnes and Katie based on the "social media breach" line of attack (please correct me if I'm wrong there, Katie and Agnes). They probably realised they couldn't summarily boot out everyone. Volunteer leaders are like needles in a haystack. We never received anything other than a stock reply of the "we are right, you are wrong, go away" variety.

No, you're quite right. Katie and I were made examples of, and GG have form for this. Another group of leaders were threatened with dismissal after they objected to the removal of "God" from the Promise. The leaders were Christians and their faith was a central part of guiding. While I agree that GG should be open to people of all faiths and none, I've never understood why we can't just have a religious and a secular Promise, and each member just chooses the one that suits them best. Scouts do this with no bother. Only one line of the Promise need vary. GG backed down at the 11th hour after solicitors were appointed as it was clearly discrimination on grounds of religious belief.

I was booted for breach of social media policy and code of conduct. GG have spent the last two years telling leaders that they don't tolerate intolerance, and sending leaders to be re-educated on gender issues. All under threat of losing your post. So, intimidation tactics really.

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