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Labour's Election Review Report - Some observations. . .

(13 Posts)
Divoc2020 Fri 19-Jun-20 10:55:18

So... Labour has published its election review report:

www.labourtogether.uk/review
PDF here: docs.labourtogether.uk/Labour%20Together%202019%20Election%20Review.pdf

I've had a quick skim through this morning (and searched some terms such as women/ LGBT/ trans etc) and have a few thoughts/ observations:

- no reference to any differences in responses between men/women
- no overt references to LGBT issues

But a few fuzzy comments like how:
"A key fault line runs between the three most “socially liberal” groups who make up the majority of Labour’s “core” . . . and the rest of the electorate on many currently salient issues." (PDF p 128)
This is highlighted perfectly by the chart on page 68 which highlights voters' perception of Labour as massively left-wing.

The only reference I've found to any gender debate issues is in the report from the online survey from The Campaign Company ( docs.labourtogether.uk/The%20Campaign%20Company%20Survey%20Analysis.pdf ) where hidden away as the penultimate comment, it says:
"Concerns around the party position on trans rights
The development of perceived hard lines on trans rights in recent weeks. Most of these responses expressed concerns around the exploitability of self-identification in gendered spaces such as toilets and women's refuges."

1/2

OP’s posts: |
Justhadathought Fri 19-Jun-20 10:59:37

Yes, the Labour party is still pretending that the conflict of rights around trans issues is a minor one, and not one they have to be concerned with.

And yet politics is supposed to deal with conflicts of rights. That is its bread and butter. Instead what has happened is that Identity politics/Gender Identity ideology has taken hold so thoroughly that the conflict cannot even be perceived, and ideological imposition is the only solution offered. TWAW and that's it.

We have to make it loud and clear whenever possible that this is an issue that is not going to go away.

Divoc2020 Fri 19-Jun-20 11:04:00

2/2
Remembering that the reports that Labour is publishing are the 'approved/sanitised' ones, I wouldn't be surprised if there was more discussion/ feedback on women's and LGBT issues, but Labour has chosen to omit/ignore it for this review purpose.

(Or, of course, it may be that it didn't feature much and was therefore regarded as a minor issue, which is also possible).

Either way, it presents a huge problem for Labour, as all the gender identity stuff is so inextricably linked with the Left, and the 'Left' is what they need to be seen to be moving away from if they want any chance of winning the next election.

OP’s posts: |
dayoftheclownfish Fri 19-Jun-20 11:04:31

Which is another reason to write to Labour MPs, even if the answer is TWAW ...

Justhadathought Fri 19-Jun-20 11:09:08

Either way, it presents a huge problem for Labour, as all the gender identity stuff is so inextricably linked with the Left, and the 'Left' is what they need to be seen to be moving away from if they want any chance of winning the next election

The Labour party admits, itself, that its main voting demographic is now young, university educated big city dwellers. This is the demographic that has totally embraced American style Identity politics. The whole class based outlook & policies of the traditional left are cast adrift, as many working class communities no longer see the Labour party as their natural home.

The Labour party is in the middle of its biggest identity crisis ever - which seems entirely fitting

Divoc2020 Fri 19-Jun-20 11:09:15

Oh yes, I forgot to say... Labour are "continuing the conversation" and asking for their responses to the review here:

www.labourtogether.uk/review

"To continue the conversation, on 22nd June we'll be holding a special online panel and participatory workshop. It'll be your chance to hear from our commissioners about the key findings of our report, ask questions and then take part in a participatory online workshop where we'll be exploring how we can implement the report recommendations across our movement."

OP’s posts: |
NonnyMouse1337 Fri 19-Jun-20 11:21:01

It's worth comparing with Lord Ashcroft's analysis. His stuff is usually well respected.

"the feeling that the Labour Party was no longer for them went beyond Brexit and the Corbyn leadership. While it had once been true that “they knew us, because they were part of us,” Labour today seemed to be mostly for students, the unemployed, and middle-class radicals. It seemed not to understand ordinary working people, to disdain what they considered mainstream views and to disapprove of success. The “pie in the sky” manifesto of 2019 completed the picture of a party that had separated itself from the reality of their lives.

As far as many of these former supporters were concerned, then, the Labour Party they rejected could not be trusted with the public finances, looked down on people who disagreed with it, was too left-wing, failed to understand or even listen to the people it was supposed to represent, was incompetent, appallingly divided, had no coherent priorities, did not understand aspiration or where prosperity comes from, disapproved of their values and treated them like fools."

lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/diagnosis-of-defeat-labours-turn-to-smell-the-coffee/

Link to PDF - lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/DIAGNOSIS-OF-DEFEAT-LORD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-1.pdf

Divoc2020 Fri 19-Jun-20 11:28:06

@NonnyMouse1337 - yes! Even from my very quick skim read this morning, Ashcroft's summary seems very similar to the conclusions I read. I can't remember where it was, but there was a striking statistic about the high number of voters who said the Labour party was 'not for people like me.'

OP’s posts: |
RedToothBrush Fri 19-Jun-20 12:50:05

The trans issue is a symptom of the culture war, which in the UK, runs firmly along educational and economic lines. Those from a working class background who have worked their way up are generally on one side of the fault line whereas middle class educated people who have gone to university tend to be on the other. It also tends to run through metropolitan dwellers versus provisional town / rural dwellers.

This isn't universal but it's a good guide.

Basically it comes back to this problem of the middle classes going to university and expecting to leap frog doing leg work and having no fucking clue of how things work in practice and there being a shrinking field of opportunities for those who don't have a degree. This has enabled regulatory capture and a blindness for the experience of those who aren't privileged.

This is manifesting in a variety of ways. Sometimes it looks ignorant on the part of the less educated side, because they lack the polished skills to express these views in a socially accepted way (as set by the middle class management). I do think it is hugely important to stress that this doesn't mean there isn't a genuine issue or grievance. It's a lack of skill not a lack of valid argument.

Labour have completely missed the problem for years and years and it's caught up with them.

The Conservatives whilst they most definitely aren't working class etc, they have identified the problem and been able to use the fracture to their advantage.

Labour are sadly years off working this out properly. But at least they aren't completely in fairy land like the LDs have become.

wellbehavedwomen Sat 20-Jun-20 11:31:50

The Labour party admits, itself, that its main voting demographic is now young, university educated big city dwellers. This is the demographic that has totally embraced American style Identity politics. The whole class based outlook & policies of the traditional left are cast adrift, as many working class communities no longer see the Labour party as their natural home.

That's a pressure group, not a party of government.

It's also worth noting that kids grow up, and don't generally take their views with them. The boomers were once doing sit-ins in universities, too. There will never be enough of them to win - thank God, given their solipsism and inability to understand that they are privileged as hell, which is why they obsess over what precise label to append to their sexuality and gender identity, while women are being beaten in their homes, social mobility is almost non-existent, rape's been effectively decriminalised and skilled manual trades lost to an unskilled service economy... all as we head into the most terrifying of global recessions, with climate change up ahead of that.

Bunch of self-indulgent wankers, fiddling as Rome burns. What a crushing disappointment that party has become. They're leaving the Tories without any opposition worthy of the name. Right now, we'd probably have to hold our noses and vote Tory, just to keep Labour out. Please God let Starmer sort it out, and remember that they could actually improve lives, if they just started acting like adults instead of the Red Guard.

sashagabadon Sat 20-Jun-20 11:55:26

Justhadathought

Yes, the Labour party is still pretending that the conflict of rights around trans issues is a minor one, and not one they have to be concerned with.

And yet politics is supposed to deal with conflicts of rights. That is its bread and butter. Instead what has happened is that Identity politics/Gender Identity ideology has taken hold so thoroughly that the conflict cannot even be perceived, and ideological imposition is the only solution offered. TWAW and that's it.

We have to make it loud and clear whenever possible that this is an issue that is not going to go away.

totally agree. Labour leadership are pretending they don't know this is a major issue. They do know though

It will be interesting to see what position Kier takes over the reverse ferret of the GRA reform. He will try very very hard not to take a position at all IMO.

I support Kier but I won't vote for him if he does not support women and girls right to define themselves.

sashagabadon Sat 20-Jun-20 11:57:37

wellbehavedwomen

^The Labour party admits, itself, that its main voting demographic is now young, university educated big city dwellers. This is the demographic that has totally embraced American style Identity politics. The whole class based outlook & policies of the traditional left are cast adrift, as many working class communities no longer see the Labour party as their natural home.^

That's a pressure group, not a party of government.

It's also worth noting that kids grow up, and don't generally take their views with them. The boomers were once doing sit-ins in universities, too. There will never be enough of them to win - thank God, given their solipsism and inability to understand that they are privileged as hell, which is why they obsess over what precise label to append to their sexuality and gender identity, while women are being beaten in their homes, social mobility is almost non-existent, rape's been effectively decriminalised and skilled manual trades lost to an unskilled service economy... all as we head into the most terrifying of global recessions, with climate change up ahead of that.

Bunch of self-indulgent wankers, fiddling as Rome burns. What a crushing disappointment that party has become. They're leaving the Tories without any opposition worthy of the name. Right now, we'd probably have to hold our noses and vote Tory, just to keep Labour out. Please God let Starmer sort it out, and remember that they could actually improve lives, if they just started acting like adults instead of the Red Guard.

agreed. The way I think now is very different to what I thought in my 20's.
Labour are a disappointment. I hope with Keir they will move away from identity politics but I see no sign this will be the case.

sashagabadon Sat 20-Jun-20 12:02:39

I also think the vast size of labours membership is a big problem for them. They tout it as an asset but I think it is their biggest drag as there membership seems to be majority student/ young people and they are hard/ ish left on so many issues. They get in the way of labour actually having sensible policies as they all want a say on everything and push the party too far left.

I think Keir would be wise to piss off as many of the membership as he possibly can - so most of them leave!
Actually maybe he could do this single handedly by coming down on the side of women and girls in the GRA debate. That would get lots of them to leave!

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