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Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

(682 Posts)
Shedbuilder Thu 18-Jun-20 09:28:36

I'm a lesbian and I mentally parted company with Stonewall and began opposing it and a lot of other LGB organisations when they added the T and then the Q and then all the other identity letters to the original LGB.

LGB people are united by same-sex attraction. TQ and whatever are linked by their insistence on identity — defining themselves by feelings or whatever. LGB people are united by their experience of homophobia. Transgenderism, and its attack on sex, is inherently homophobic. The two cannot and could never exist comfortably together. As soon as Stonewall added the T to their constituency, it began working against its core community.

Stonewall and other organisations have done this by force. Uncoupling the LGB from the TQ+ is one of the most important things anyone with a GC stance can do.

Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame, not something that employers should be plastering everywhere as proof of how progressive they are.

OP’s posts: |
Michelleoftheresistance Thu 18-Jun-20 10:18:15

Yup.

VickyEadieofThigh Thu 18-Jun-20 10:19:19

I agree. Recently I saw an article reporting that an actor had "come out as LGBT" - they meant gay, but apparently you have to come out as the entire fucking alphabet soup nowadays.

I have nothing o do with Stonewall, who are one of the most anti-lesbian organisations going.

Ninkanink Thu 18-Jun-20 11:14:46

Yes.

BlueBooby Thu 18-Jun-20 11:17:41

I agree. I've also seen it written as lgbtiq+ and sometimes there are even more letters.

endofthelinefinally Thu 18-Jun-20 11:19:08

I completely agree.
That is why I support LGB Alliance.

Deliriumoftheendless Thu 18-Jun-20 11:19:46

I noticed one of the Twitter comments someone posted here (can’t remember which) where someone had put “talk to an LGBT” and a bloke had replied “I’m a homosexual man not an LGBT!”

Whilst LGB or LGBT has its uses it can not be used for single people.

Bit irrelevant that post.

AngeloMysterioso Thu 18-Jun-20 11:21:02

I’ve been saying LGB for at least a year. LGBTQIA+ is just ridiculous.

Ninkanink Thu 18-Jun-20 11:25:53

We’ve already dissected the T angle in depth.

Anyone who is okay with the Q in there really needs to research queer theory.

Shockedandbefuddled Thu 18-Jun-20 21:16:36

Thank you for starting this thread. It’s a question I have been pondering.

I fully understand marginalised groups wanting to support each another but current TRA activity seems to be against same sex attraction.

I genuinely don’t know enough about queer theory but do know parents, including same sex parents, who have stopped taking their children to Pride because of kink and fetishism.

I believe my parents were, justifiably, questioning of a movement which included PIE and it probably caused homophobia in their peer group.

TehBewilderness Thu 18-Jun-20 21:18:57

It is the result of lazy journalism but it has created the weird belief that there is such a one as an LGBT person. Unpossible.

EmpressLangClegSpartacus Thu 18-Jun-20 21:29:01

To quote JK Rowling’s butch lesbian friend, FUCK YES!!!!!!

Morphsplaydoughpoo Thu 18-Jun-20 21:41:45

I agree with you. I'm on your side. As a straight woman please tell me what I can do to be openly on your side without being labelled transphobic, especially as I work for the NHS and we used to get the rainbow lanyards just if we requested them as an ally whereas now if we request them we have to join the LGBTQ+ group to get them and I don't agree with that. I don't encounter much LGB stuff other than that so if you can show me where to go I'll stand with you, if there is little I can do just please know I understand what you're saying and I support you.

TehBewilderness Thu 18-Jun-20 21:48:26

Women's rights have been declared anti-trans, so there is nothing anyone can do to stand for women's rights without being labelled transphobic.

Melia100 Thu 18-Jun-20 21:50:01

I never do.

It's stupid, anyway. No one person is lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, intersex and plus.

Straight people use it to avoid their internal awkwardness at saying 'lesbian'. If I wanted to get all social-justice-religious about it, I'd go so far as to say that calling a lesbian an "LBGTIQ+' is a fucking microaggression.

I don't use ''queer' either. Gay and lesbian elders have all expressed, commonly enough, their discomfort at the term, for real reasons. So in the interests of not caping for young straight genderqueers, but instead showing solidarity with older lesbian and gay people, in whose lifetime gay sex was a criminal offence! and still is in some parts of the world! that term is off the table for a straight woman like me to use.

LillianBland Thu 18-Jun-20 21:59:02

I’m a straight women, OP and I feel so sorry for young lesbians, in particular. They’re so under attack at the minute and being gaslighted in a way I never believed possible. The thing that all women have in common, is the wish for our sex attraction to be respected, whether it is to opposite sex or same sex. Women, lesbians in particular are being bullied into either accepting ‘lady’ dick or being accused of being transphobic, while trans widows, who are straight are being told they are now ‘lesbians’ because their husbands have started calling themselves women.

I hope you are free from the bullying and gaslighting being inflicted on you, soon.

SapphosRock Thu 18-Jun-20 22:01:57

I'm a lesbian and I don't mind being part of LGBTQ at all.

I disagree that LGB have not peacefully co-existed with T and Q. It's only very recently there's been problems. Being part of a wider LGBTQ community does not threaten my clear identity as a female homosexual exclusively attracted to adult females.

I too have parted company with Stonewall but for different reasons.

SapphosRock Thu 18-Jun-20 22:07:37

* Women, lesbians in particular are being bullied into either accepting ‘lady’ dick or being accused of being transphobic*

You see this gets repeated over and over again on MN and it's just not true. Yes some dodgy TRA may have tweeted it once but I haven't met a single lesbian who has encountered this on or offline. I'm in a very active lesbian Facebook group with over 5,000 members, you'd think if this was a 'thing' then someone would have mentioned it but not once has it come up.

TehBewilderness Thu 18-Jun-20 22:13:00

I disagree that LGB have not peacefully co-existed with T and Q.

I was there when the T tried to raise the umbrella to cover the LGB fifteen years ago. It was not well received. I have read dozens of Gay and Lesbian requests to please not call them queer.
How very odd that you are ignorant of this longstanding conflict, Sappho.

Melia100 Thu 18-Jun-20 22:16:05

That's great. As a lesbian, you get to identify for yourself where your political interests lie and with whom.

This was a request to allies from a women with a different pov.

As an ally, I'm always going to go with the 'no', instead of the 'yes'. Because calling a lesbian a lesbian cannot harm a lesbian who identifies with the LBGTIQ community. It doesn't take anything away from her, and doesn't force her to disidentify with that community.

But this particular lesbian doesn't want to be called 'LBGTIQ+', and ignoring that request does make me into a straight woman steamrollering right over her.

FYI, most of us actually know lesbians, lol. Like, they are in our friendship, family and work circles. We don't need their requests to us translated by others intent of denying their perspective.

So, glad to hear that some lesbians have no issue with LBGTIQ+. Lovely.

And I will go on my way not using that term to refer to lesbians, at the request of lesbians who don't want to have their political interests subsumed into 'queer'.

SapphosRock Thu 18-Jun-20 22:16:11

If some lesbians feel they want to disassociate from LGBTQ then that's fair enough but they shouldn't think they speak for all lesbians.

Most of us are fine with it.

SerenityNowwwww Thu 18-Jun-20 22:17:55

I just stop at B. The rest are just having a laugh.

SapphosRock Thu 18-Jun-20 22:21:06

* Please, let us work towards making the letters LGBTQ+ a badge of ignorance and shame*

Seriously?? I guarantee 99% of lesbians would not be on board with this.

Melia100 Thu 18-Jun-20 22:21:27

Most of us are fine with it

You're the spokeswoman for the global lesbian community? Why should I take your word - the one that forces 'dissident' lesbians into an affiliation they reject - over the word of the 'dissidents'?

What makes your yes more powerful in terms of guiding healthy alliance from straight women than her no?

SapphosRock Thu 18-Jun-20 22:23:08

* You're the spokeswoman for the global lesbian community?*

Well sure, you can call me that but it's really just common knowledge.

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