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Can someone educate me please?

(15 Posts)
MrsKingfisher Thu 11-Jun-20 20:05:21

I have so many questions and I'm fearful of asking because I'll probably be accused of being a TERF or a Transphobe..

I consider myself a feminist, I whole heartedly believe in women's rights and the right for women to be heard, respected and feel safe.

The question I have is why if a trans women considers herself to be a woman why then the need for the trans prefix, the same for trans men.

I am offended by being called cis, I am a woman if trans women are also women why does the Trans part matter so much.

I feel that you should be who you are however I don't accept that 'people' menstruate and I stand with JK Rowling on this. I am not transphobic, phobic suggests I have a fear or an aversion neither of which is true.

How do I begin to stand up for women's rights, where do I begin in educating myself further?

OP’s posts: |
bebanjo Thu 11-Jun-20 20:24:38

Hi, it’s been a busy few days for those who are brilliant at articulating on this board.
If you look for the “breaking it down for me” thread, you’ll find lots of articles to get you started.
Also get on you tube, watch some poise Parker, Magdalen burns, rose of dawn, then tak3 a look at Reilly j Dennis (just for balance)

I’m dyslexic and so post often, please excuse mistakes 😄

MrsKingfisher Thu 11-Jun-20 20:25:22

Thank you @bebanjo

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TheShoesa Thu 11-Jun-20 20:36:24

Here you go OP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

NonnyMouse1337 Thu 11-Jun-20 20:36:59

Welcome MrsKingfisher.

This is the thread bebanjo mentioned.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

There's a lot of information on this board as these issues have been going on for a number of years. I'd suggest you take your time to read the topics that get discussed. It's ok if it feels a bit confusing and baffling at first - getting familiar with any area takes time.

We've all been through the phase of asking ourselves these sort of questions. There are a lot of contradictory statements put out by trans activists and it can be frustrating because it doesn't make logical sense.

Trans activists claim that 'trans' and 'cis' women are subsets of a larger term 'women'. They say it's like referring to 'black' women and 'white' women. (They seem to have a penchant for always bringing race into their justifications, especially black women.)
So essentially as women, we have been forcibly demoted into a subcategory and given the label 'cis' whether we like it or not, so that 'trans' women can claim they are a subset of womanhood as well. Except everyone knows exactly what a trans woman is - a man who identifies as a woman. Only a man can be a trans woman.

NonnyMouse1337 Thu 11-Jun-20 20:37:52

Snap TheShoesa! smile

Winesalot Thu 11-Jun-20 20:39:51

Welcome. I think you might find quite a few threads about this. I will post some as I find them.

If you search for one called ‘break it down’ hopefully that will help too.

Here is a couple of active ones

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3935698-Please-help-me-out-with-trans-debate-CONFUSED

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3935416-Please-help-me-understand-the-transgender-issue

Not that some others won’t come along, but there are some lively discussions on these threads.

Also read sites like womansplaceuk.org/wpuk-manifesto-2019/

And fairplayforwomen.com/

Lots to take in. And ask away anything that you want to discuss.

MrsKingfisher Thu 11-Jun-20 20:57:01

Thank you so much, bedtime reading sorted!

I feel really angry at the moment, the JK Rowling piece has really struck a chord. I've always been pissed off with men telling women how to be, look, behave. I am so sick of hearing 'people menstruate' my poor dh is hiding because I've had several rants about it. As far as I'm concerned women and girls menstruate it's a biological fact.

I need to educate myself further because I am someone who likes facts I can't deal with people shouting me or others down unless I have actual facts.

I feel quite conflicted because of course I want any trans man/woman to feel they are safe and respected and have the right to be who they are however this seems to be at the expense of women's rights and I struggle with that.

At the age of 10 on a school trip I came out of a public toilet to be faced with a man with his erect penis out telling me to touch it and trying to get into the cubicle I had ran terrified back into. It took me years to enter a public toilet without my mum putting her foot under the door or if she wasn't with me I'd not go I'd hold it in.

It's really important to me that women and girls feel safe in a place where they are more vulnerable and I see companies bending over backwards to accommodate men who now say they are women without any regard for those of us who might not be ok with that.

Does this make me transphobic or someone who has the right to be concerned?

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Gingerkittykat Thu 11-Jun-20 21:01:31

I thought trans women didn't want to be referred to as trans because it makes them feel bothered and different from biological women.

Winesalot Thu 11-Jun-20 21:05:34

MrsKingfisher

What a terrible thing to have to deal with at 10!

As someone with PMT at the moment, I have had a couple of rants myself. Please do keep joining in threads.

NonnyMouse1337 Thu 11-Jun-20 21:12:10

So sorry that you had to experience such a scary and disgusting thing like that as a young girl, MrsKingfisher. So many women have experienced similar things growing up. While it is awful that these things happen to women and girls, it is encouraging to see so many women really resonate with J.K. Rowling's post and feeling justified anger at the reaction from other celebrities and the bullies and trolls on her Twitter timeline for simply stating that women's right to single sex spaces must protected.

It does not make you transphobic at all. Women's rights do not have to be removed and our language and words to describe our realities and experiences in this world do not have to be erased for society to find a way to accommodate trans people.

NonnyMouse1337 Thu 11-Jun-20 21:14:03

Gingerkittykat

I thought trans women didn't want to be referred to as trans because it makes them feel bothered and different from biological women.

That's because they are different from biological women. 😁
Trying to force the entire world to pretend this isn't the case isn't going to help trans women in the long-term.

MrsKingfisher Thu 11-Jun-20 21:59:32

Thank you for all the great info! I'm manoeuvring myself over to the relevant threads.

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Wearywithteens Thu 11-Jun-20 22:00:56

The bottom line is that trans women are actually male bodied people who have body dysmorphia and feel psychological pain at having a male body because they feel like a woman trapped in a male body. (The problem of what actually constitutes ‘feeling like a women’ is another big debate as most biological women don’t ‘feel’ or ‘think’ their womanhood ). Some men actually go as far as to remove their penis surgically, take female hormones and have breast implants. This doesn’t make them a biological woman but it eases their psychological pain.

Many women and feminists who are gender critical are still willing to accept that the men described above are vulnerable and should be able live and go about their lives with respect and without prejudice and harassment.

The main problem arises when society and the law recognises male bodied people who have made no such commitment (so called ‘self id’). This opens up the label trans women to any male bodied person who say they’re a women. So a golden ticket for dangerous men with dubious intentions. It’s already well documented that abusive criminal men are claiming to be women in order to freely abuse and assault biological women. And vulnerable ones. But the women’s vulnerability is not factored or risk assessed. The sheer act of ‘self identification’ is indulged without challenge.

There is a big pressure to allow Trans women unfettered access to private spaces previously reserved for the dignity and privacy of biological women (toilets, changing rooms, rape centres, women’s refuges, prisons etc.) In some places this policy has already been overturned without consultation.

A newer initiative, one that JK Rowling was alluding to, is the removal of the word woman altogether. Even when talking about things that only biological women do - have periods, breast feed, give birth. Women are relegated to menostrators, chest feeders, gestational carriers. The complete erasure of the signifiers of biological womanhood is dismissive of their huge significance. Not only that but it is deeply offensive and quite frankly, frightening.

Whether well intentioned or not, whether in psychological pain or not both types of the trans women I’ve talked about are actually male bodied. And biological women suddenly have no choice but to literally roll over and accept this unless they want death threats, rape threats, losing their jobs, social exclusion.

MrsKingfisher Thu 11-Jun-20 22:18:05

Thank you @Wearywithteens

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