I think trans women are women.....

[rabbitwoman]

i think transwomen are women.

i think that women that are not transwomen need a special set of laws and rights to protect them because they are and have been subject to many centuries of oppression. They need laws and protections around childbirth and breastfeeding. they need support around menstruation.

women that are not transwomen will be susceptible to cancer of the overaries and womb, endemetriosis, and also respond very differently to some diseases and medicines

It would be very useful to put all these women who are not transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled.
this need not conflate with transgender rights.

Aslo, women that are transwomen will have been subject to a unique form of sexual abuse, harassment and prejudice. they will require specialist medical treatment to negotiate things like prostrate and testicular cancer within their own identity. they will respond very differently to some diseases and medicines.

It would be very useful to put all these women who are transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled.
this need not conflate with women's rights

i propose that for these purposes we could use the words 'transwomen' and 'women'

as well as 'transmen' and 'men'

is this wrong?

[lydiamajora]

I know that the following question is considered goady by some but I have to ask: what is a woman? I'm not asking to be a jerk, but seriously, what do women have in common which differentiates them from men or any other "gender"? How does one tell whether they are a woman or something else?

What is the purpose of separate sporting competitions for men and women? Why segregate prisons and toilets?

[RuffleCrow]

There's nothing offensive about having a particular word that describes adult human females. Do you find the distinction between cows and bulls offensive? After all, no-one has even bothered to ask bulls how they identify

[testing987654321]

In what way are transwomen women?

What do women have in common with transwomen that they don't have in common with men?

In what way are transwomen different to men?

If I was going to draw a vent diagram, the whole would be humans, then men and women would be separate circles inside humans. Transwomen would be a circle inside the men's circle.

[testing987654321]

Venn diagram, obviously.

[MaggieMay1972]

You have a penis and testicles and yet you are a woman ?. Have I got that right ?.

[BaronessFloralBunting]

What, third spaces and specific provision for male trans people? Perfectly sensible.

Nothing to do with women's provision, which should obviously include female trans people and those women who would rather say they are non binary.

I'm campaigning for women. Male people have enough resources and support to campaign for themselves.

[TorkTorkBam]

Yes, I can get on board with the content of your post, despite your clickbait title.

It's about time more trans people started being proud of being trans and proud of their sexualtiy whatever it may be instead of hiding behind word play.

Be proud to say I am a lesbian woman who is a transman, not a man.

or I am a hetero man who is a transwoman, not a woman.

Different needs.

[NaturalBornWoman]

It would be very useful to put all these women who are transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled
this need not conflate with women's rights

I propose that for these purposes we could use the words 'transwomen' and 'women'

as well as 'transmen' and 'men'

is this wrong?

I think some people on here are a bit hard of thinking OP. Your proposal sounds perfect to me.

[Joisanofthedales]

Trans women are men. They have XY chromosomes and produce small motile gametes called sperm.

[CaraDune]

Rabbit I am genuinely confused by what you're saying (possibly not your fault, I've had a rough couple of days).

You open with I think that transwomen are women then go on to distinguish between what the rest of us call "women" and "transwomen", articulating perfectly sensible arguments about sex and gender, then say you propose we use two separate words "transwomen" and "women". Doesn't your first sentence contradict the rest of what you say?

Do you think transwomen are women?

Or do you think transwomen are transwomen, women (as defined biologically) are women, and that's fine?

[Justhadathought]

A woman is an adult human female.

A transwoman is not an adult human female, they are something 'other' whether that is accepted or not.

Being a woman is not an identity, it is just a fact of biology. And biology has quite powerful implications and effects.

I've never bought into the argument that women are exactly the same men, except with different bodily parts. Of course, we are all human, but we are also creatures of earth, and like most other creatures are dimorphic. Bodily dimorphism is instinctively registered.

[TinselAngel]

I'd suggest that the category that we have for "women who are not trans women" could be called "Women".

[Justhadathought]

exactly the same as men

[EdgeOfACoin]

I get you, OP. I'm not sure everyone is reading your post fully!

[stillathing]

Op it sounds more like you think transwomen are transwomen? On this basis I agree with your post.

But I do think the class of adult human females, women, deserve to be able to name themselves and describe their experiences in order to be able to come together and fight the discrimination which you rightly note goes back centuries.

[rabbitwoman]

(okay, so I suppose what I did was a bit cheeky and I apologise for the click baity title, I was trying out sone clever mental gymnastics, I am sorry if it fell short of the mark.....

I wanted to show support for the trans community and also demonstrate the need for separate demographic groups

Yes. I have posted JK's article to my Facebook page and yes, it has led to a lot of 'debate' and yes, I am a bit exhausted....)

[rabbitwoman]

But, forever hufflepuff

(known for their loyalty)

[Justhadathought]

I get you, OP. I'm not sure everyone is reading your post fully

I read it fully. And what i read seemed to be almost 'othering' women in their own category. Women are women. They are adult human females - even if they reject the word 'woman' . a transwoman is a male who identifies as a woman - whatever that means....... seems to be based on stereotypes and fantasies to me.

[Minty82]

Oh well done, how did it go on FB? Am still a bit scared to open that particular can of worms so publicly...

[FourTeaFallOut]

Women that are not transwomen? 🤣

[MyBubblesBurst]

Transwomen are not women. They are altered males

[AnyFucker]

I object to your "women who are not transwomen" definition because it centres men

"Women who are not transwomen" are just women

Transwomen are transwomen and have their own set of needs that should not displace women's

You are trying to simplify something that is already simple. It's not women that are trying to gaslight us all, it is men

[Justhadathought]

I wanted to show support for the trans community and also demonstrate the need for separate demographic groups

Well transwomen can be called transwomen, but they are not women. This needs to be established as a first principle. biological sex is important and women require single sex spaces, services and sports for their own safety, comfort, dignity, and categories in which to excel.

I've always suggested that trans activists campaign for third spaces - but this is usually rejected as it 'others' them. But they are 'other'. They are other than women.

[bluebluezoo]

women that are not transwomen

women that are transwomen

Why are you defining women by whether they are trans or not?

Women are women. They are not “not trans”.

Trans people can do, dress, whatever they want, and should not be discriminated against for doing so.

But they are not women.

[testing987654321]

We don't need to say women that are not transwomen because no women are transwomen and no transwomen are women.

They are completely separate categories. I prefer women and "men who say they are women".