This is a Premium feature
To use this feature subscribe to Mumsnet Premium - get first access to new features see fewer ads, and support Mumsnet.Start using Mumsnet Premium
Advice please re dd exploring queer culture(16 Posts)
Hi my lovely dad 15, ASD, is getting heavily into the LGBTQ culture in a big way and has just asked me o buy her a book called The Queeriodic Table. Writing as a gender critical woman.
We talk openly about her own feelings regarding her sexuality (thinks she's bi, no prob with me) and heavily into gender identity ideas - says shes non-binary demigirl. Talked about difference, expressing your own personality etc.
Trying not to panic but she's very naive, immature for her age (only just started periods, breasts starting to develop) and a bit vulnerable. Also understand she will look at this stuff. Just want to make sure I can give her some content to balance out what I suspect she's getting online.
Also how to try and express that imo the T and Q elements have some very unhealthy elements without totally sounding like old out of date mum!
All constructive advice much appreciated.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-queeriodic-table-harriet-dyer-interview_uk_5c45af49e4b027c3bbc39f12 This sounds like she's using the term queer as a very broad definer of homosexual culture in history.
But I've also seen a video by a teen reviewer who talks about it as about
Physical sex (which you can change to fit the first point)
She's ASD so you'll need to work doubly hard to distinguish fact from fiction. Help her divide it up into 'scientifically proven', 'psychological theory' ' personal opinion' 'subjective feeling' 'personality' etc. Talk to her about how being a girl is just a scientific fact, whereas being feminine is a matter of individual personality and societal pressure. Make sure she gets a 'balanced diet' of books to counteract the Genderwang. Caroline Criado Perez's Invisible Women is one i bought for my 14 year old dd.
Also help her research different time periods and locations where men were/are more feminine etc.
My dd is 13 and gay, has a v close friend who is "trans" and a handful of friends who are gay. She is fairly immersed in elements of queer culture but is utterly gender critical. We have a very open dialogue about all issues and she followed Magdalen without prompting for example, but is also happy to read lots of other feminist literature I pass her way. We have talked about feminism, equality, rights, responsibilities, historical injustices etc so much and she has naturally appreciated and been inspired by the fight women have faced. I have worked hard to not lecture her and to discuss all points so that she can draw her own conclusions. I am v aware that there is a tide out there trying to contradict her natural position but she is navigating it well so far.
I came on to say Magdalen. Queer culture is quite an eye opener when you start reading the background - not good. When did girls stop reading (proper) feminist literature?
Thanks Ruffle yes I've been aware for a while re the ASD and have got myself much better informed re the trans situation since I found out she was following Jazz on YouTube a while back...
Those categories are a great idea. I've talked to her about gender identity as an ideology but not sure she's really understood what that means.
She believes LGBTQ is more inclusive that LGB.
Showofhands that's really encouraging, thank you for sharing that! Yes was wondering about Magdelen. Any suggestions for good places to start with her writings?
Lord yes it is isn't it. Any particular bits of Magdelen you'd recommend?
ths is better
"An ideology is a set of opinions or beliefs of a group or an individual"
Trans kids : Time to talk channel 4 documentary may or may not be useful. Watch it yourself first.
There are quite a few female detrans on YouTube who are very reasonable and intelligent when describing their experiences.
How much time is she spending on internet sites like Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram etc?
Could she get more involved in the outside world? Maybe try help direct her attention offline?
After watching the Trans Kids: It's time to Talk, listen to this.
I would recommend all of Magdalen but this I like, especially since Arielle Scarcella has recently spoken of how she has been thrown out of the 'community' and she was really really lib fem before.
Scarcella has done something with Megan Murphy so then you can get her watching more of that. If she can see for herself that it's connected to homophobia and conversion therapy she might begin to see it with new eyes.
It's obviously connected to paedophilia (QT/Foucault/Butler/PIE) but that's maybe further down the line, hopefully not necessary.
This might be useful but listen to it yourself first.
But if anything get her offline.
Hi colouringindoors, am in a very similar position, my ASD dd is 14, bisexual, best friend is transgender. She has totally bought into gender ideology, as has her brother, 17. Have tried a bit to discuss issues, but got called the usual names, She is naturally very feminist, so am encouraging that lots, buying her books etc, we can talk about that without arguing! Have also enlisted her lesbian auntie as a mentor, to help her feel 'normal' about being bi, as there has been some bullying in school, since she came out. I hope she will come round eventually, I think me talking to her about gender issues is counter-productive, as she has all the one-liners ready to go, and it's not a conversation. Bit worried about her stance on violence, she is saying she believes violence is necessary for some groups to be liberated. Not sure how to approach that one. Wish you all the best with your dd.
'Violence is necessary for some groups to be liberated'.
Yes, I'm not surprised you're worried. I get the impression some very manipulative people like to wind up the well-intentioned to do their dirty work for them. (Others are seeking a societally-acceptable outlet for their violent urges but this seems less likely with your 14 year old daughter).
If she is a feminist does she believe that women are, and have been historically, oppressed due to their physical sex or due to their gender identity? Does she believe that physical sex has any importance? For me this is the baseline belief I cannot change and everything else stems from there.
I don't think she has dug down into it that much, she doesn't really get why the two ideas are contradictory at the moment.
we're in Ireland too, which has a rebellious history, that she's been learning about in school. I think that has contributed to her viewpoint. I think the ASD means she takes her opinions to their logical conclusion, and that's what she's doing. Gender is clearly a special interest for her at the moment, and she feels that trans people are being oppressed, which is unjust, and they should be liberated 'by any means necessary'. I backed away from the conversation because I had no idea how to respond, I don't want to send her any further in that direction by providing further justification!