Radio 4 now (11.30) - what does it mean to be a butch lesbian

[nauticant]

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000j8qr

Joelle Taylor celebrates 'being butch' and asks whether it's an identity with a future.

Not clear yet whether it's going to be old school or woke.

[nauticant]

A non-binary person: as we have more identities it becomes more difficult because you have to fit into one of those identities.

You don't say.

[SarahTancredi]

Why does everything have to be an identity cant anyone just wear what they like and have their hair how they want.

Why is maintaining an image to fit onto restrictive boxes preferable to just realising there r millions of people in the world just doing their own thing

[nauticant]

A woke-sounding person just on gave a list of identities including a transwoman who identifies as butch. Yeah, right.

[SarahTancredi]

[nauticant]

Interestingly the most assertively positive comments made about butch lesbians came from a homosexual man who had been around the block a few times.

[Whatisthisfuckery]

Yes, a load of gender bullshit. A butch presenting transwoman, what even is that? It’s not a fucking lesbian, whatever it is. Who was the gay guy who spoke near the end, I didn’t catch his name.

[nauticant]

I don't know. Did they say he'd been a longstanding gay correspondent for Time Out?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

A butch presenting transwoman, what even is that?

It's a male person who presents themselves in a conventionally masculine way while claiming to be actually a woman.

[CatandtheFiddle]

a transwoman who identifies as butch

So, let me get this straight - a transwoman who takes on the physical/social visual stereotype of a man?

[nauticant]

The specific term for this is Duping Delight.

[huntinthehornybacktoad]

Hang on, I heard some of this.

It was presented by a woman, right? As in born a girl.....

[CatandtheFiddle]

Yes. I thought it was great. And edged towards a strong rejection of some of the “If you’re butch you must really be a man” pressure on young women today.

The gay man from Time Out was brilliant. And the presenter was fabulous - really warm and funny.

It’s not my world at all (boring straight old woman) but I have friends and colleagues who, if not butch, are quite androgynous or boyish. But they’re very clear they’re women.

[huntinthehornybacktoad]

Agree with Cat.
I learnt a lot too about the history of “butch”

[nettie434]

I enjoyed it too CatandtheFiddle huntinthehornybacktoad. Joelle Taylor covered so much and included both sides of the gender/sexual orientation divide. It was very personal but also wide ranging.

[huntinthehornybacktoad]

yes- it was refreshing as it she is obviously worried about the situation but was focussed on herself and the history of the word she uses to think of herself - "butch".

I got as far as the bit where she was asking her hairdresser whether he thought she was a man and they were both firmly rejecting the idea. He was also saying he refuses to go to pride.

How anyone could think this was woke nonsense is beyond me - we don't have to violently condemn the other side Posie-style all the time!

[SuperLoudPoppingAction]

I think it was Paul Burston speaking sense. A friend of Julie Bindel.

[greennugget]

I remember seeing Joelle at a poetry event on a school trip - she is BRILLIANT, very excited to hear this!

[SuperLoudPoppingAction]

www.flapjackpress.co.uk/page24.htm I was reminded a bit of Steph Pike's poetry which I love