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Unwomen at it again

(42 Posts)
MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 16:52:57

What you say matters.

Help create a more equal world by using gender-neutral language if you're unsure about someone's gender or are referring to a group.

twitter.com/UN/status/1262322788687323136

So how does this work in French?
Also, there is a term for congress men and women, they are known as congressionals. And a landlord (mie's female) is not the same thing as an owner.

Lordfrontpaw Wed 20-May-20 16:56:17

Oh UN Women - I guess they do like to 'un-women'.

I have requested that they take the woman part out of their name (since they include everyone in that list) but for some reason, my unreasonable demands aren't listened to on twitter.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 17:01:41

And maiden-name is not family name. Family name is surname in English.

NotTerfNorCis Wed 20-May-20 17:02:32

Saying 'owner' instead of 'landlord ' can come across as strange. I used to know a woman - English wasn't her first language- who kept referring to her 'owner'.

FlopsyDoodle Wed 20-May-20 17:03:04

But surname sounds a bit like ‘sir-name’. Can’t have that hmm

Goosefoot Wed 20-May-20 17:04:56

Interestingly when I was in school this sort of thing was considered a feminist angle.
It's perhaps another example of a focus on language that doesn't bear quite the expected fruit.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 17:05:50

Which is why we generally say Family Name now instead of surname, just like the French nom de famille.

The alternative to maiden name is unmarried (sur)name.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 17:11:57

"Police Woman" was a WPC, a separate rank that no longer exists. There are still male and female officers and the law requires this distinction, especially in custody where the searching and welfare of females in custody is always the responsibility of a designated female officer on duty.

Goosefoot Wed 20-May-20 17:19:55

What would we replace surname with family name?

Maiden name is a different thing entirely. I could have a surname and a maiden name.

Aesopfable Wed 20-May-20 17:20:03

A businessman is not (necessarily) a representative, a legislator may not be a congressman or woman though a congressman is a representative, and the words manpower and workforce are used differently. As already pointed out a landlord may not be the owner, and your your maiden name won’t be your family name (unless you kept it). Even partner is considered a more serious step from boyfriend/girlfriend.

HuMAN really? You have to do better than that! Hupersons at least!

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 17:23:28

To me, 'Landlady' suggests pub.

ThinEndoftheWedge Wed 20-May-20 17:34:00

@Mockers

Police Woman was a WPC, a separate rank that no longer exists. There are still male and female officers and the law requires this distinction, especially in custody where the searching and welfare of females in custody is always the responsibility of a designated female officer on duty.

How does this comply with current practice of the stonewalled college of policing guidelines? I thought male police officers could now ‘identify’ as women and have the right to search and be in charge of the welfare of women in custody - trampling the rights/needs and vulnerabilities of women in custody.

Serious question - and serious times if I question need to be ask the question.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 17:35:24

How does this comply with current practice of the stonewalled college of policing guidelines?

I'd say, "Search me," but then I'd be worried about who was doing it.

Finfintytint Wed 20-May-20 17:41:24

This reminds me that for 20 odd years I was referred to as the Female Policeman or the Policeman lady!

PhoenixBuchanan Wed 20-May-20 17:51:26

Some of these make perfect sense- firefighter, police officer. Isn't this standard language?

Family name to replace maiden name however confused I do dislike the term (probably because it sounds like old maid). I'm a midwife so I have to ask about this at booking appointments. I tend to ask if the woman has ever used a different/previous surname, because that actually covers more situations. But if I asked what their family name was, they'd just tell me their current surname surely!

Miriel Wed 20-May-20 18:31:38

Even partner is considered a more serious step from boyfriend/girlfriend.

That's an odd one. Saying 'my partner' implies a more serious relationship than 'my boyfriend' but if you're asking about an unknown person instead of talking about yourself, 'do you have a partner?' is the better choice - it stops someone having to explain that no, they don't have a boyfriend - but they do have a girlfriend! Or vice versa.

'Representative' for 'businessman' is the weirdest one there to me. Without context, I'd assume a representative was a politician of some sort. Businessperson is a bit of a clunky word, but it exists. Previous name or original surname would be a better replacement for maiden name.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines Wed 20-May-20 18:46:55

I tend to ask if the woman has ever used a different/previous surname, because that actually covers more situations. But if I asked what their family name was, they'd just tell me their current surname surely!

Exactly - previous surnames is much better, covers all eventualities

Ioads of things ask for mothers maiden name as a security question - my sons will have no chance, I'm not married, and even if I did I wouldn't change my name.

merrymouse Wed 20-May-20 18:50:17

I can't think of a context where I would use 'businessman', unless I were trying to sell a trouser press in 1972.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Wed 20-May-20 18:58:55

To answer my own question, the UN Women French Twitter feed is in English.

twitter.com/un_women?lang=fr

Antibles Wed 20-May-20 22:27:12

I like humankind. Also chair, firefighter and police officer. To me they are neutral in the same way doctor, lawyer, teacher and cashier are.

I realise it doesn't work for all languages because of their gendered nature. There's a section in Caroline Criado Perez's book on this.

DidoLamenting Wed 20-May-20 23:16:31

I'm surprised anyone is giving "maiden name" the time of day. It's an awful expression. I'm not sure it's even used in official forms these days.

Ioads of things ask for mothers maiden name as a security question

You're right they do. It really doesn't work in my family. My mother married (and divorced) twice and kept her own surname both times , which is the name I have and I kept it as well.

DidoLamenting Wed 20-May-20 23:19:50

"Owner" for "landlord" is ridiculous. The 2 are not synonymous.

There is a perfectly good gender neutral word "lessor".

Soph88888 Wed 20-May-20 23:54:41

My landlord is a female and I still call her landlord ?
Calling her the property owner doesn’t imply that I’m a tenant on a rental contract, just that I live here in someone else’s property and maybe she lives here too, more like I’m a lodger?

Lordfrontpaw Thu 21-May-20 00:00:56

The woman downstairs owns the property but her son manages it for her (she is on her 90s). Whose the landperson?

FifteenToes Thu 21-May-20 00:09:39

I'm confused. Is the OP complaining that there's something bad about this? I always wish we had more gender-neutral language, and if we did it would surely help avoid some of the absurities around gender in public debate, by not pretending that everyone has this innate "thing" called a gender and that we therefore have to refer to them by it all the time.

One can argue about specifics and details, but surely the general spirit of the list makes sense?

I rent out a property and always refer to myself as the "owner" because landlord seems bizarely feudal and anachronistic. I do see women referring to themselves as landlords though.

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