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"Where We Went Wrong," by the Lib-Dems

(78 Posts)
MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Sun 17-May-20 08:45:51

Previously net-positive ratings for Jo fell during the campaign. There was clearly a lot of misogyny and sexism at play, and Jo’s appeal to women also fell significantly during the election.

For any leader to be successful takes time; to build awareness, to form relationships, to understand the role and learn from early mistakes. However for Jo that time simply did not exist and – while sex is of course no barrier to being able to do the job successfully – there is a growing body of research on the challenges of being a female political leader which imply that time for preparation is even more valuable. Time not just for themselves and their party, but also for people to ‘get’ someone different from the ‘norm.’

(pages 15-16)

Plenty of frank and devastating self-criticism, but one or two blind-spots, including Rosy Cobb who seems to get off scot-free. Bad relations with the media? Why would that be?

bit.ly/3fY6yvm

OP’s posts: |
BadLady Sun 17-May-20 08:50:52

I don't doubt that there was sexism towards Jo Swindon, but at the same time, my sympathy is not as strong as it should be given that she doesn't believe in sex. If she was in charge, the UK would be far more sexist than it currently is. Therefore, I'm glad she lost.

I do like Jo generally though. If the gender/sex issue didn't exist, I think she'd make a great politician.

ThinEndoftheWedge Sun 17-May-20 08:56:53

Could someone explain how the Lib Dem’s know that Jo Swinson is a woman and that there was ‘misogyny and sexism’ at play? I know she self ID stating ‘ I know I am a woman’ but she sadly didn’t explain what criteria makes both her and trans identified males, women.

Of course this has NOTHING to do with her catastrophic poll ratings with women.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown Sun 17-May-20 08:57:28

Jo’s appeal to women also fell significantly during the election.

Interesting how they didn't seem to feel the need to investigate this further. What possible reason could women have for changing their mind about supporting Swinson? Maybe it was something she said.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing Sun 17-May-20 09:00:59

What possible reason could women have for changing their mind about supporting Swinson?

The implication of the two paras quoted above seems to be the old idea that women are the most misogynistic voters, and will be the first to find fault in a female candidate.

Maybe they need educating?

OP’s posts: |
nauticant Sun 17-May-20 09:10:22

she doesn't believe in sex

It's worse than that. She does believe in sex* but pretends not to. A level of deceit and gaslighting there that's inescusable.

* Just about everyone knows sex is real, despite some of them pretending otherwise

Winesalot Sun 17-May-20 09:16:48

I too find the inference that the decrease in popularity amongst women is due to misogyny and sexism.

Surely there must be a fuller report to says clearly ‘Jo lost the support of women because the blind adherence to TWAW and to denial that there was indeed a major issue that women no longer feel even recognized by the party, was completely ignored. The shut down of discussion and throwing around ‘phobic’ to dissenters obviously had nothing at all to do with it hmm.’

What lesson will be learned by the party that does not name the real reasons?

testing987654321 Sun 17-May-20 09:18:54

Just about everyone knows sex is real, despite some of them pretending otherwise

Just feel that needs repeating.

Ereshkigalangcleg Sun 17-May-20 09:18:56

Interesting how they didn't seem to feel the need to investigate this further. What possible reason could women have for changing their mind about supporting Swinson? Maybe it was something she said.

I can't possibly imagine. It must be very subtle and nuanced, for them to miss this analysis of Jo Swinson's lack of appeal to women, as part of their examination into why the Lib Dems failed so spectacularly to convince the public to support them.

Kit19 Sun 17-May-20 09:21:32

There was a few oblique references to policies that were seen as “niche” that the wider voters didn’t care about. I did wonder if that was about self ID

Poor old Lib Dem’s so deeply in denial that they can state sexism played a role in Swinsons downfall and not see that their stance on self ID perpetuates that very same sexism. Pink, sparkly, frivolous likes dresses = woman

teawamutu Sun 17-May-20 10:08:06

Saw this covered in the Times, and quite a few comments referred to JS's comments on self-ID.

They MUST know. Which means they're now lying, not deluded.

EmpressLangClegInChair Sun 17-May-20 10:13:04

while sex is of course no barrier to being able to do the job successfully – there is a growing body of research on the challenges of being a female political leader

Hang on - sex? The Lib Dems don’t believe in sex!

Ereshkigalangcleg Sun 17-May-20 10:13:34

Of course they are lying/omitting the truth. The party contains some of the most vociferous champions of removing women's rights.

EmpressLangClegInChair Sun 17-May-20 10:19:38

They’re right about misogyny & sexism being at play. They’ve just missed that it was misogyny, sexism AND homophobia on their part that put women off.

OldCrone Sun 17-May-20 10:27:39

But according to the views publicly stated by Jo Swinson herself, she could simply have declared herself a man and all the sexism would have instantly disappeared.

KaronAVyrus Sun 17-May-20 10:38:12

If the Lib-Dems are not prepared to properly investigate why they received such a kicking at the last election then they will carry on being kicked at the next. They really have such a low opinion of the electorate.

NotAGirl Sun 17-May-20 10:39:05

They're right about misogyny & sexism being at play. They've just missed that it was misogyny, sexism AND homophobia on THEIR part that put women off.

This with bells on (added important emphasis to the 'their'

CatandtheFiddle Sun 17-May-20 10:39:52

Interesting that they acknowledge sex and sexism in that report.

I thought that sex was irrelevant to LibDems, and it was all about how you identified?

Or was it all about shielding child sexual abusers and their followers?

CatandtheFiddle Sun 17-May-20 10:42:48

she could simply have declared herself a man and all the sexism would have instantly disappeared

grin grin grin grin OldCrone

MadameMarie Sun 17-May-20 10:51:30

The fact they took such a kicking in the election despite Corbyn's unpopularity says a lot. They championed themselves as party of remain, while Labour tied themselves in knots, yet only got 11% of the vote.

They've barely got a base anymore and the leader couldn't even keep her own seat.

BadLady Sun 17-May-20 11:02:46

Go woke, go broke

DidoLamenting Sun 17-May-20 11:23:26

The fact they took such a kicking in the election despite Corbyn's unpopularity says a lot. They championed themselves as party of remain, while Labour tied themselves in knots, yet only got 11% of the vote

I voted Lib Dem simply because my constituency was a possible win for the SNP and short of the BNP I'd support any party which has a chance of keeping an SNP candidate out. The Lib Dems held it.

I don't think the stance on self ID explains why the Lib Dems sunk to 11%- there must be more to it than that.

Ereshkigalangcleg Sun 17-May-20 12:37:35

the Lib-Dems are not prepared to properly investigate why they received such a kicking at the last election then they will carry on being kicked at the next. They really have such a low opinion of the electorate.

I doubt the activists care about this. It's a vehicle for their agenda.

Xpectations Sun 17-May-20 12:45:04

I think the Brexit position did for them.
She was pushed on what might be their Brexit position if 1) LibDems were elected to Govt, 2) they held a People’s Vote, and 3) that vote returned another endorsement for Brexit.
She said LibDems would continue to favour Remain.
That was the nail in their coffin. People couldn’t stomach it.

Ereshkigalangcleg Sun 17-May-20 12:54:18

There was an opening for the Lib Dems to be the party of Remain for disgruntled Remainers. They blew it. And I think that was partly down to the general lack of credibility of Swinson, which the BBC somewhat hypocritically exploited by asking her and other female Lib Dem politicians what a woman was on every possible occasion.

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