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Clementine Ford - worth a follow!

(17 Posts)
YogaFaker Fri 17-Apr-20 11:25:58

I don't know how many of you know about Clementine Ford, an Australia feminist writer and activist. She has a great FaceBook page and this came up in my feed this morning - I've copied the whole thing - but you should go & look at her stuff yourself - it's really worth it. She's clear and kick-ass.

I thought this post was really important & gets at the roots ("radical") of why I"m a feminist (and I'm probably about 30 years older than her!)

"Patriarchy and its enforcers relies on making women devote themselves to men rather than each other. The only way we will defeat the system is through women working together. Because if you think men ~as a class of people~ have your back, I’m sorry to tell you you’re wrong. Men will NEVER go to the mat to defend women the way that women consistently turn out to pledge their allegiance to men. Stop giving your energy to them and start giving it to your sisters. The coven takes care of its own.
It doesn’t mean you can’t love men or like them or have sex with them or enjoy their company or raise them (I’m raising one myself and I have many male friends!) but you also need to recognise how the SYSTEM works. The system does not want women working in concert together. It doesn’t want women to learn we can reject everything we’ve been told we have to aspire to (beauty, male approval, a semblance of protection from the worst of its harm in exchange for enthusiastic endorsement of its brilliance.) It definitely doesn’t want women to realise that if we work together, we form an unstoppable force that’s impervious to all of the system’s most insidious and manipulative tools.
Male supremacy cannot survive women’s solidarity. Fact. But women’s solidarity is also not always about men. In fact, sometimes - most times, in fact - it’s nothing to do with men at all. That’s another lie the patriarchy wants you to believe - that everything women do and think and say and breathe is somehow motivated by men’s opinions. Women exist and thrive regardless of whether or not a man is there to witness us in motion.
Support your coven, friends. The coven will save you. The coven is where you find all the power you thought you didn’t deserve.
Remember that saying: “We are the witches they tried to burn.”

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YogaFaker Fri 17-Apr-20 11:27:01

It made me think about about various MRA attempts to get MN closed down.

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NotBadConsidering Fri 17-Apr-20 11:40:27

Despite all that, she’s on the trans wagon. She may spout about male supremacy but doesn’t think it applies to sport for example.

YogaFaker Fri 17-Apr-20 11:44:21

Oh dear! I don't follow her on Twitter, just FB. It's weird, isn't it, that some feminists will state the radical position so clearly, but don't see the TWAW contradiction ...

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RuffleCrow Fri 17-Apr-20 11:47:18

She sounds like she's got it spot on! Will look her up.

RuffleCrow Fri 17-Apr-20 11:48:01

Oh no, should have rtff sad

Kantastic Fri 17-Apr-20 11:58:54

I don't understand how someone can write that and still be completely blind about trans activists invading women's spaces, taking over and destroying women's movements like the Women's March in the US, making it nearly impossible to discuss issues related to women's biology or being a mother, and derailing every single public discussion of women's rights to turn it a discussion about the bepenised. How can she have written something so astute and not see it?

I feel the same kind of complete bafflement about Kate Manne.
Her analysis of misogyny is very insightful, and the trans movement is an extremely striking example of everything she's written. And yet Manne is a fully committed TRA.

The cognitive dissonance it must take! It's strange to me - seeing how the patriarchy operates to siphon women's attention and labour away from ourselves is not easy, we're all trained not to notice it or draw attention to it. Once you've seen that, how can you not see that the TRA movement is more of the same, with extra vitriol?

YogaFaker Fri 17-Apr-20 12:09:59

Excellent questions, Kantastic - is it generational, do you think? I'm probably at least 20 if not 30 years older than Ms Ford.

Or is that there's an assumption that TWAW #nodebate is just a basic fundamental and part of the "rights" movement? So that Ms Ford doesn't see it as cognitive dissonance ...

I guess for me, if others want to believe that TWAW, that's fair enough. I don't have to agree. I tend to think that transwomen are transwomen, and nowt wrong with that. But I also would resist the political and material effects of the belief that TWAW forced upon me. And unfortunately those who believe TWAW don't have the same tolerance of my views that I have of theirs.

Therein lies one of the problems ...

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Ikeasucks Fri 17-Apr-20 16:36:13

Lol, sure Op

Clymene Fri 17-Apr-20 21:23:24

Clementine wrote one of the most powerful articles I ever read about the family annihilator who murdered Hannah Clarke and her children.

It's a shame she is unwilling to join the dots

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark Fri 17-Apr-20 22:43:31

It’s extraordinary, isn’t it. I can see this thing! I can see it so clearly! I can see it so clearly I have to explain it to everybody else! And yet if you dress this thing up in a winsome but fundamentally pretty transparent disguise, I will be COMPLETELY FOOLED and shout nasty things in bad words at anyone who tries to make me see it, the way I try to make other people see it when it’s not in disguise....

It fair makes your head hurt, the whole batshittery of it.

And yy Kantastic re Kate Manne - I was stunned when I came across her. To write a whole book about misogyny while being so completely blind to the vicious, virulent misogyny within your own self is really quite something.

YogaFaker Sat 18-Apr-20 10:43:15

Yes, TalkingtoLang - I've really enjoyed Clementine Ford's take-no-prisoners posts on FaceBook when they pop up on my feed. I know something of the embedded sexism of Australian culture - it's no coincidence that some of the most outspoken feminists (Germaine Greer, Carmen Callil) are Australian. No coincidence at all.

But I hadn't come across her TWAW stuff (there's algorithms for you!) and it's both disappointing & baffling. As you say - to see some stuff so clearly and then to completely lose the plot.

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MangoesAreMyFavourite Sat 18-Apr-20 11:15:32

Still surprises me how someone can be so clear about putting energy into other women , but if a bloke puts a dress and lippy on....
The disguise is so thin and yet fools so completely confused

YogaFaker Sat 18-Apr-20 11:43:31

I know. It's disappointing, to say the least.

Because her message to women otherwise is really strong, positive and empowering.

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Ikeasucks Sat 18-Apr-20 12:29:10

I wonder if she actually met these young women face to face, what she would say yo them about recognising their cis privilege over white, male, rich Laurel Hubbard

DaydreamingDay Sat 18-Apr-20 12:53:30

I cannot understand how anyone who writes about misogyny or who is even aware of it, can't see it within TRA. It's plain as day! Everything, absolutely everything, about it is misogynistic.

ChattyLion Sat 18-Apr-20 13:18:11

It must be so wierd making public statements on feminism with so much cognitive dissonance going on. I’m not surprised if feminists start focusing on other stuff or holding back on talking about women’s rights in general once they’re on the record saying obviously contradictory stuff about sex and gender. I think they know full well what they’re doing and just want not to be reminded of it.

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