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Self-ID three month requirement

(16 Posts)
AlwaysTawnyOwl Sat 14-Mar-20 22:59:21

I’ve just completed my GRA response. The 3 month ‘living in the acquired gender’ is just a declaration with no evidence required as far as I can see. There is no definition of what it means and it’s a vague concept anyway. Much clothing is unisex and many names are too. Both men and women go out to work, look after children etc. It’s a bizarre concept. Will the Scottish Government be issuing lists of male and female clothing, approved male and female names?

HorseWithNoLang Sat 14-Mar-20 12:12:07

I block the fuckers too. The internet should really be called Creeps and Weirdos Central. They should write a song about that.

AnyOldSpartabix Sat 14-Mar-20 11:40:34

As soon as I recognise the narcissism, I remove access, so far as I can. Blocked this person and a completely different account has popped up with precisely the same aggressive style. Blocked that one too.

I don’t knowingly engage with narcissists, but I have learned that if I make succinct, evidence based posts, now and then one will insert themselves. In the past, I’ve continued to argue in the same manner and that’s when threats are made or action is taken. My job has been threatened and my account attacked to the point of suspension. Hence the reason I now block preemptively if I spot it. I refuse to stop speaking because of online bullies though. I am fortunate enough to be in a position where I can and I will use that.

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HorseWithNoLang Sat 14-Mar-20 09:01:34

I would never argue with random narcs online.

What would be the point exactly?

OldCrone Sat 14-Mar-20 08:47:28

Any man can just wander into any women’s space and you will have no recourse to even so much as query their presence.

We have this already for informal single sex spaces (those in which documents are not checked, like toilets and changing rooms). Under a self ID law, what will change is that men will have the right of access to everything reserved for women, including women's prisons and jobs which are reserved for women using the Equality Act single sex exemptions. Once a man legally becomes a woman, with a birth certificate saying "female", how can you legitimately exclude him?

AnyOldSpartabix Sat 14-Mar-20 08:46:40

I’ve already argued that Aesop. Also that the government backing self-ID sends a message to predatory men that women’s spaces will now be easier to access. That’s one of the things that’s tripping my narc radar. It’s an apparently new account, but the arguments are very well versed.

Experience tells me that I continue to argue convincingly (thwart his dominance) that an attack will be made and it will quite possibly be significant as I am not anonymous.

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Aesopfable Sat 14-Mar-20 08:34:20

It is irrelevant. If you can’t ask to see a GRC or even ask if someone has one as “transphobic” then it is neither hear nor there. Any man can just wander into any women’s space and you will have no recourse to even so much as query their presence.

BetsyM00 Sat 14-Mar-20 08:31:11

As far as I can see, the draft Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill has absolutely no provision for the Registrar to check that an applicant has been "living in the acquired gender" for the previous 3 months.

It only says that if an applicant (who is 16 or over, has a Scottish birth certificate or is resident in Scotland) submits a signed declaration, then the Registrar MUST issue a GRC after the 3 months waiting period.

So no questions asked, no documents need be provided - heck, not even a name change is necessary.

AnyOldSpartabix Sat 14-Mar-20 08:28:43

It really is whether the need to supply evidence for the much-shortened time period will still apply. My understanding is that the only requirement is a declaration that you have “lived in your acquired gender” but that nobody will check and your statement that you have is literally the only requirement. Currently checks are carried out and paperwork required.

Pretty sure the person is lying. Have looked through other posts they’ve made and it’s clearly a bullying male who has learned that asserting untruths in a confident manner will silence most women. I’m not going to engage with him more as I have that creeping sense of a significant narcissist who is hiding behind a seemingly innocent profile. My instincts tell me further argument will put me at risk.

Hate this.

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OhHolyJesus Sat 14-Mar-20 08:18:28

I've learnt here that in the current law, "living as" doesn't have any requirements for surgery, hormones or wearing stereotypical clothing 24/7 (they don't have inspectors coming round checking that a man is 'womaning' properly), but the two year thing applies, I think, so to allow for certainty, which we know isn't necessarily the case for detransitioners.

The two years will just be reduced to 3 months. My concern on this specifically, if can you then change it back in the future as 3 months isn't very long to try anything out. (You can't cancel a gym membership until 6 months.) and how we can ask this of children who can't even get tattoos is really disturbing and setting them up for a fall.

OldCrone Sat 14-Mar-20 08:17:16

If "living as a man" includes getting pregnant and having a baby, there is no longer any distinction between "living as a man" and "living as a woman", so why does anyone need to change their "gender" at all? You can obviously live as a man and do anything you want and live as a woman and do anything you want.

They're making a good argument for just recording biological sex (to be used when necessary for things like medical treatment and for safety for women and girls), and doing away with gender altogether.

NotBadConsidering Sat 14-Mar-20 08:06:21

Even for a GRC, “living as a man” now includes getting pregnant and having a baby, so what’s the point? It’s all meaningless bullshit.

testing987654321 Sat 14-Mar-20 07:45:59

Are you talking about England or Scotland? I thought both had only done consultations so the details are still not defined.

I am not sure what difference it makes anyway, how can any person show evidence of "living" as the opposite gender. Changing their name and wearing slightly different clothes? It's nothing sensible to base any laws on.

SarahTancredi Sat 14-Mar-20 07:45:50

This seems to be a common thing activists say.

X wont happen because they will check And you can be prosecuted blah blah blah

Well its not self ID then is it . The whole point is they say what they are and that's it.

jadefinch Sat 14-Mar-20 07:40:52

I've never heard the three months thing before. My understanding is that with self ID you can legally change your gender in a few minutes - you just need to get a document signed and that's it

AnyOldSpartabix Sat 14-Mar-20 07:27:56

During a discussion on a different forum I stated that under self-ID it would not be necessary to provide evidence for “living three months in your chosen gender” which is my understanding.

The person I spoke to claimed evidence would still be required, but only for three months, not two years as before.

The government document I’ve read states only that a statutory declaration is required. I see no evidence that any checks will be made. Do I have it wrong? They mentioned a fact sheet, but didn’t provide a link.

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