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Page 9 | Zoe Williams opinion piece in The Guardian

(204 Posts)
Justhadathought Tue 10-Mar-20 19:05:04

Feminist solidarity empowers everyone. The movement must be trans-inclusive: www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/10/feminist-solidarity-empowers-everyone-the-movement-must-be-trans-inclusive

Needless to say, she misses every single point.......And no, feminism has always been about centring the needs of women and girls.......

OP’s posts: |
pachyderm Fri 13-Mar-20 22:07:21

Quote from the column

"But I recall that not as a humble-brag-style apology, but because there is a bizarre idea ossifying that “real” feminists are being hounded out of the discursive space by trans activists. Rather, what has occurred is the systematic enclosure of the debate, so that unless you want to go to the mats about toilets, your point of view is not relevant."

Isn't that just the most appalling writing? I've read it a couple of times and I still have no idea what she's trying to say. And not because she likes to chuck in words like "ossifying" and "emollient" as the densely sapid walnuts among the shimmering evanescent word salad. (ooh look, I did a Zoe!). It just doesn't make any sense.

I've come across this in real life, that women with backgrounds as privileged as Zoe actually can bypass a lot of the worst of sexism to the point where they don't really believe it exists, and the debate is just a bit of amusing sophistry for them. It is a deep failure of imagination and empathy. And of the "kindness and generosity" she keeps banging on about.

Thinkingabout1t Sat 14-Mar-20 09:58:25

Which “rights” do trans women need which they do not currently have? Nobody on the other side ever seems to have a sensible answer to this straightforward question, from which we can only hazard that the “right” transwomen want is more correctly defined as a sense of entitlement to have women validate their gender identity as indistinguishable from females’ sexed reality. Women are entitled to say an unequivocal ‘no’ to this. ^If we are not entitled to our ‘no,’ can libfems please explain how this squares with the importance they place on consent in other aspects of male-female relations?^”

Well put. We need to keep asking this question of TWAW-believers who call themselves feminists.

Thinkingabout1t Sat 14-Mar-20 10:12:59

If we are not entitled to our ‘no,’ can libfems please explain how this squares with the importance they place on consent in other aspects of male-female relations?"

That is the question I meant to highlight.

Thinkingabout1t Sat 14-Mar-20 10:15:39

I've read it a couple of times and I still have no idea what she's trying to say. And not because she likes to chuck in words like "ossifying" and "emollient" as the densely sapid walnuts among the shimmering evanescent word salad. (ooh look, I did a Zoe!).

grin

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