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Melanie Phillips in the Times supporting Suzanne Moore

(25 Posts)
mcduffy Tue 10-Mar-20 08:31:31

The left is eating itself in a trans culture war

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8cccf160-6224-11ea-8024-40a080f12cd1?shareToken=de2a43ae971841c90554bec67758d41d
Couldn't see it posted elsewhere.

OP’s posts: |
BovaryX Tue 10-Mar-20 08:34:47

Her conclusion is an epic indictment of the illiberality which has become synonymous with a significant faction of the left.

^enforcement of dogma, complete with metaphorically burning heretics at the professional stake or subjecting them to Orwellian smears and character assassination, smacks of the medieval inquisition, French Revolution or Soviet communism.In response to the furore over Suzanne Moore, there have been references to The Guardian being a “great liberal newspaper”. This is about four decades out of date. It stopped being a liberal paper when liberalism became corrupted by ideologies which permit no opposition and are therefore inimical to truth, freedom and reason.
Suzanne Moore wrote: “I self-identify as a woman who won’t go down quietly.” We may not agree with everything she says, and she may not welcome all of us as supporters, but those who stand for freedom against such sinister attempts at social and cultural control will be cheering her on^

BeetrootRocks Tue 10-Mar-20 08:42:01

Interesting thank you for posting.

Feels the tide is turning with all this.

How it got so far in the first place is the biggest concern. The working behind the scenes with govt etc for years to change things without anyone knowing is really sinister.

TheRealMcKenna Tue 10-Mar-20 08:45:34

The Guardian being a “great liberal newspaper”. This is about four decades out of date. It stopped being a liberal paper when liberalism became corrupted by ideologies which permit no opposition and are therefore inimical to truth, freedom and reason.

Given Phillips’ history with The Guardian, this is not a surprising statement.

HavelockVetinari Tue 10-Mar-20 09:09:49

She's a bit bonkers though - she states that the patriarchy doesn't exist!

BovaryX Tue 10-Mar-20 09:22:38

I think the point she makes is that even columnists like Suzanne Moore, who has been a left wing advocate for years, is vulnerable to being denounced by the fanatics currently policing the left:

Both these witch-hunts show once again how the revolution eats its own. In the 18th century, the French Jacobins started by guillotining enemies of the revolution and then decided that certain revolutionaries were themselves enemies of the revolution.Obviously, the attempts to silence Moore and numerous others who offend against woke dogma are a blow against freedom of expression, the bulwark of a free society. More sinister and profound, labelling such dissidents as enemies of humanity is designed to terrorise others into disavowing both them and their ideas.

Sheheshee Tue 10-Mar-20 09:36:55

Phillips isn’t my favourite person and I disagree vehemently with her take on the patriarchy and feminism but fair play for supporting Moore.

Al1Langdownthecleghole Tue 10-Mar-20 09:40:08

That's my take too shehe. It's astonishing that she doesn't believe we live in a patriarchal society, but otherwise she makes some good points.

Floisme Tue 10-Mar-20 10:34:35

I saw Phillips on Triggernometry and, to be honest, thought she sounded as mad as a box of frogs, but she always says what she thinks and I respect that.
I remember her when she was a lefty Guardian writer so she knows all about how it feels to be cast out by 'your own people' and, on that front, I imagine she feels some kinship with Moore.
She is also correct about the left eating itself, although not the first to say so.

Floisme Tue 10-Mar-20 10:34:57

And thanks for the share token!

Languishingfemale Tue 10-Mar-20 11:56:31

Comments show that the vast majority completely agree with her.

BuzzShitbagBobbly Tue 10-Mar-20 12:02:56

The left is eating itself

Good. It saves us a job, we're busy enough already.

NonnyMouse1337 Tue 10-Mar-20 12:34:57

Thanks for sharing. It's a very good article.
I found her comments about the patriarchy intriguing. I don't know much about her views on it.
Patriarchy can be very specific or a very nebulous term so I'm always interested to hear what people outside of feminist circles think about it.

wellbehavedwomen Tue 10-Mar-20 13:55:54

I had no idea Phillips had ever been a Guardianista! I just googled that. I'm too young; she was always the right winger on the Moral Maze when I was growing up.

I hate that I think she's right on this. I don't agree with her views, but she's referring to purity spirals. And anyone watching the clip of Nandy today can recognise that when they see it.

stumbledin Tue 10-Mar-20 14:40:24

Phillips has a long list of personal vendettas she likes to carry out to cover up the fact that she was once a leftie and (I think) contributed to Spare Rib.

This article is nothing more than jumping on the bandwagon as it gives her the opportunity to vent against her usual targets.

You would think if she is so comfortable to be a born again right winger she wouldn't need to so endlessly need to promote this.

I think she has also done an about face in terms of Israel.

Its always a shame when people who are presented as journalist (let alone reporters) are actually endlessly renacting their personal issues.

DidoLamenting Tue 10-Mar-20 15:29:36

Phillips used to be a regular Guardian columnist. I can't remember exactly when or why she fell out with it.

Justhadathought Tue 10-Mar-20 15:57:27

Phillips, quoting Irving Kristol, defines herself as a liberal who has "been mugged by reality

Justhadathought Tue 10-Mar-20 16:14:34

"Phillips once described herself, per American neo-con Irving Kristol, as “the liberal who has been mugged by reality.” If few others have followed her path, it is because “once [the left] got rid of the idea that there was any such thing as truth, ideology filled the vacuum. They start with ideas, then everything else has to be made to fit. They can’t follow the evidence.”

Justhadathought Tue 10-Mar-20 16:16:07

"So why did she soldier on at the Guardian group of newspapers for 21 years, when she was isolated by colleagues and increasingly unhappy?

“It was like family to me,” she explains. “It was like a divorce. You can’t believe that your family members are so abusive because you are locked in with them. It takes a very long time to be able to stand back and say this is really over. I didn’t feel I had any home to go.”

Justhadathought Tue 10-Mar-20 16:17:35

"Even today, she does not completely feel at home in the British right"

“At root, I felt that they weren’t animated by what animated me – a passion for tikkun olam,” or repairing the world, she says. “That’s what you get on the left. I have that. What people who are not on the left brought to the party was common sense, a very rational approach. It’s valuable because it’s tethered to earth. But what was lacking was the idealism that says, I really want to improve everything.”

BeetrootRocks Tue 10-Mar-20 18:33:54

I don't agree with quite a bit of what she says but I really appreciate her as

A woman who has opinions
Says them in a straightforward unsoftened way
And puts thought in rather than parroting, in general you're never quite sure what her stance will be, and she always gives an explanation as to why she thinks as she does

And she's often the only woman on various political TV progs

We need more women like her tbh. A bit scary tbh. I like a bit scary on a woman smile

BeetrootRocks Tue 10-Mar-20 18:34:56

I mean on a man it wouldn't be a bit scary but it's so unusual on a woman.

I hope you know what I mean.

It's a compliment.

MaMaLa321 Tue 10-Mar-20 18:37:33

I saw Phillips on Triggernometry and, to be honest, thought she sounded as mad as a box of frogs
That was exactly what I thought floisme.

WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS Wed 11-Mar-20 00:54:14

I don't agree with quite a bit of what she says but I really appreciate her as

A woman who has opinions
Says them in a straightforward unsoftened way
And puts thought in rather than parroting, in general you're never quite sure what her stance will be, and she always gives an explanation as to why she thinks as she does

I feel exactly the same way.

pachyderm Wed 11-Mar-20 14:58:00

I don't agree with her on a lot of things but she's right about some - her book on where the Left went wrong on education was excellent and helps explain some of where we are today. And she's crisp and no-nonsense without the rambling anecdotal shite that clutters up the work of so many columnists. I like her even though I also consider her barmy some of the time.

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