R4 Today - Rugby gets it

[Mockerswithnoknockers]

Rugby Nut Justin talking to the guy from World Rugby and it's clear they have thrown Harper's back of an envelope 'study' in the bin. Expect new rules in the next few months.

[Babdoc]

Good. Rugby is one of the sports with the highest risk of injuries for women playing against men. It should be obvious to all but the terminally stupid and irretrievably woke that transwomen should either play against men or have a separate transgender league of their own.

[nauticant]

It was irritating though that the case study used to lead the piece was a FtM rugby player who was continuing to play in women's rugby. That case was not very informative about what the issue is beyond opening the question of whether someone who dopes openly should be permitted in a sport. The doping aspect incidently was carefully stepped around.

[Mockerswithnoknockers]

The IOC have been scammed. It is as if they said you could take all the steroids in the medicine cupboard for years, so long as you came off them in time for competition and so were 'clean.'

[littlbrowndog]

That we even have to have these discussions does my head right in

Ffs

So sick of this shite

[mcduffy]

Gash I started a thread too so i've reported as duplicate.
mine had a link;

They've interviewed a FtM transitioned athlete who made me a bit shouty (more than usual).
//www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm from 8.38am
but then Ross Tucker from World Rugby who's talking sense and says about the residual advantages rather than just taking hormones but is quite balanced and considered in his thinking.

[mcduffy]

it did annoy me that there wasn't a counter response to the trans player and also annoyed me that they were permitted to use "cis"

[Hoppinggreen]

Yes, it does sound like someone is finally getting it. My DH is 6ft 2, if I somehow managed to remove all the testosterone in his body I couldn’t beat him in a fight. My 11 year old is only just stating puberty but he’s as big as me and he could probably physically beat me if it came down to strength.
I did find it very interesting that the trans man being interviewed was talking about fairness etc but plays for a women’s team - not man enough to play with the big boys then?

[Clymene]

I didn't catch the name of the trans masculine player. So is the current situation that all trans people play women's rugby? Because that was the implication.

[nettie434]

I heard that too. I didn’t catch the name of the rugby person being interviewed but he spoke very convincingly. I liked what he said about how sport should reflect society but there was a need to be fair at the same time. As mockers says, he said it appeared that the physiological advantages of going through male puberty remained. I know this sounds really obvious but we know how 🚴‍♂️ and others have denied this possibility.

[nauticant]

The man was Ross Tucker.

[Mockerswithnoknockers]

No pads, no helmets. People die playing rugby. Broken necks and career-ending brain injuries. Crushed pelvises and spines.

To use a rugger analogy, it looks like they were blindsided by Harper, but now they've caught up.

[nettie434]

The man was Ross Tucker

Thanks nauticant. I recognise the name now - he has also commented on Caster Semenya.

[NearlyGranny]

Hang on; if a FtoM player continues playing women's rugby and MtoF players switch to women's rugby too, including stuff like breaking a coach's ankle and folding a teammate 'like a deckchair', how is it fair on the women's game?

[zanahoria]

other sports may swallow the bullshit but Rugby cannot afford the lazy option, if they get this wrong there are serious consequences

[Languishingfemale]

There was a good thread on this recently. It has a link to Ross Tucker's twitter thread explaining the methodology that they used and (for the first time I suspect in this whole shitshow) women were consulted . The brilliant Nic Williams (Fair Play for Women) was involved.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3828981-RUGBY-review-of-transgender-women-in-womens-sports

[MarieQueenofScots]

If a FtM chooses to play with men, that’s their risk.

If a MtF chooses to play with women, they’re putting every other person on the pitch at risk without their consent.

I’m so over this shit. Why aren’t transwomen being told “set up your own teams” like we were when women’s rugby started gathering pace?

[Languishingfemale]

And... the Times had this article about referees voicing concerns about safety and responsibility:
Share token:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/659962d0-e20f-11e9-8221-1b98fc56091e?shareToken=b9b6d46af1adec9bbbd340357119495d

[MarieQueenofScots]

The quote from “Kelly” says it all.

“I do feel guilt but what can you do?”

Well either play against other fucking men or not play. The options are there.

[mcduffy]

Marie on R4 this was a FtM still playing with women

[MarieQueenofScots]

Marie on R4 this was a FtM still playing with women

I know.

My quote regarding Kelly was from The Times link Languishing posted.

[Kit19]

Thank you rugby!! It’s interesting that sport England gave commissioned a review of their trans guidance. I’ve certainly alerted my DH to the issue in his sport as he looks after umpires & has gone from “haha don’t be silly” to “wait what?” To “ok that is safety issue”

[boatyardblues]

It was irritating though that the case study used to lead the piece was a FtM rugby player who was continuing to play in women's rugby. That case was not very informative about what the issue is beyond opening the question of whether someone who dopes openly should be permitted in a sport.

I thought the BBC’s choice to interview a FTM still playing in the women’s game was thoroughly disingenuous. All the risks were sidestepped. Had they had the honesty to field a MTF playing in the women’s game, the furore would probably have forced a rule change by teatime. The risks for smaller players (ie women) are life-changing injuries. This should never have been allowed. No one’s validation should be at the expense of another player’s health or wellbeing, and that’s before you even consider the fairness of including male players in the women’s game and the women displaced by them.

[SisterWendyBuckett]

I thought the BBC’s choice to interview a FTM still playing in the women’s game was thoroughly disingenuous

Completely agree. Interviewers need to start asking proper questions so that listeners can actually understand the issues and what's at stake.

Why wasn't this ftm player asked about the physical advantages gained by taking testosterone for medical transition? Or did the transman's physical awesomeness just come about through daily sessions at the gym?

[HelgaHere1]

Someone told me this was due to the risk of insurance claims.
Not concern over women's well being or fairness but the risk of women players suing for serious injury.

[nauticant]

Here's the transman rugby player from the Today programme this morning:

www.athleteally.org/meet-transgender-rugby-player-shawn-gatewood-knows-diversity-strength/