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‘Woman or person who gave birth’

(136 Posts)
Fooffmalooff Mon 02-Mar-20 14:31:01

I have recently been given a survey to fill in regarding care during pregnancy and birth. It’s an NHS survey.

One of the questions asks how you are related to the baby, be it birth partner, family member or ‘the woman or person who gave birth.’

I don’t know why but this has really annoyed me. Women give birth. ‘People’ (read- transgender men) do not. Absolutely fine if you identify as a man etc etc but even if you live like a man, look like a man, think like a man... if you are pregnant and having a baby, you are biologically a woman, no matter how you think/feel/look on the outside.

I just feel a bit weird about the inclusion of this on a survey which is intended for women regarding the most fundamentally female thing you can do.

Thoughts?

OP’s posts: |
Unusualsuspicion Mon 02-Mar-20 14:41:03

If it had just said 'the person who gave birth' I'd be spitting, but this formulation is inclusive without erasure. I don't have a problem with it.

WickedlyPetite Mon 02-Mar-20 14:42:27

I would (and have, on an NHS form) scribble out the words "or person", and return the survey.

Thisismytimetoshine Mon 02-Mar-20 14:43:18

I’d wonder at the mentality of someone happily going through pregnancy and birth who was “triggered” at being referred to as a woman.

Danceswithwarthogs Mon 02-Mar-20 14:50:26

I think it’s fair, it doesn’t erase the fact of childbearing In women nor deny the existence of trans people (which GC people are often wrongly accused of).

I can’t imagine it’s very easy being a pregnant trans man in a pregnancy/obstetric setting and small acknowledgements like this must go a long way to make someone feel less alienated.

RollingDownTheRiver Mon 02-Mar-20 14:58:40

At least they included the word "woman"!

Elsiebear90 Mon 02-Mar-20 15:04:35

What’s the issue? They are not erasing women here, just noting that some trans men giving birth might have an issue with being referred to as women, which is their right. This is probably the only way they can have biological children so I imagine it’s probably difficult enough being pregnant when you identify as a man, it doesn’t take much to just respect and acknowledge they feel uncomfortable being called women, you’re still being called one, this literally has 0 effect on you at all, so what’s there to be annoyed about?

MingeofDeath Mon 02-Mar-20 15:17:01

Elsie there is no such thing as a pregnant man. That's always the thing with transmen isn't it?They always get pregnant and bleat on about how it "triggers" them. Don't go and do one of the most female things that can be done then love

SleepDeprivedElf Mon 02-Mar-20 15:28:11

I like it

Mrskeats Mon 02-Mar-20 15:31:04

No man has, or will ever, give birth.

Thisismytimetoshine Mon 02-Mar-20 15:31:15

I don’t

Thisismytimetoshine Mon 02-Mar-20 15:36:05

When we’re talking about care during pregnancy and birth (women only here, I’m afraid, whatever you choose to identify as), we shouldn’t have to be grateful women aren’t being erased! If anything is all about women, it’s this.
If anyone truly believed they were a man, there’s no way they’d choose to do this.
Ante natal care for women should not be a triggering event for anybody

Elsiebear90 Mon 02-Mar-20 15:40:10

Elsie there is no such thing as a pregnant man. That's always the thing with transmen isn't it?They always get pregnant and bleat on about how it "triggers" them. Don't go and do one of the most female things that can be done then love

Why does it bother you so much if they prefer not to be called women though? It has no effect on you or your life what so ever. I would imagine they get pregnant because it’s the only way they can have a biological child, something the majority of us want and would do almost anything to achieve.

ErrolTheDragon Mon 02-Mar-20 15:41:31

* That's always the thing with transmen isn't it?They always get pregnant and bleat on about how it "triggers" them.*

'Always?'hmm it's just a few - most transmen unfortunately can't get pregnant , even if they come to regret their choice to be sterilised which they may have made far too young.

I suppose some 'nonbinaries' might prefer 'person' but I've not too much sympathy there- choosing to bear a child but being fussy about language is rather having ones cake and eating it.

MrsTerryPratchett Mon 02-Mar-20 15:42:38

Better than 'uterus haver'. I'd say the TRAs probably hate it more than you do and a solution is when everyone is unhappy!

midgebabe Mon 02-Mar-20 15:43:47

But I do find it offensive

It is Suggesting that if you accept the label of woman than you automatically accept the gender identity of woman.

It is denying the existence of female born people who do not accept a female gender identify but do understand that they are biologically female.

It is refusing to allow the word women to refer to the set of people bound by a common biology, and related to that biology a common set of abuses

In attempting to be inclusive it is exclusive

FannyCann Mon 02-Mar-20 15:48:35

I would cross it out and write Mother.

If you are a woman who has given birth you are a mother. A judge said as much recently in the case of the trans man who wanted to be recorded as the father.

whiskeylullaby2 Mon 02-Mar-20 15:53:19

I really struggle to get offended by this. I wouldn't have been offended if they had only put 'person' . I don't think i would have even noticed/given it a second thought.

I truly believe some people are desperate to be offended, and look for it everywhere.

Thisismytimetoshine Mon 02-Mar-20 15:53:42

A woman tried to register themselves as their child’s father?? In the UK? Thank God sanity prevailed hmm

Thisismytimetoshine Mon 02-Mar-20 15:54:54

Fine for you not to mind, whiskey. Not fine for you to declare someone else shouldn’t either.

midgebabe Mon 02-Mar-20 16:06:12

Whiskey, a few years ago I would have been more than happy with the phrase person who gave birth

But now I understand better what some people believe I am signing up to if I say I am either a woman or the person who gave birth , so I find it offensive

I want my sex recognised where it is relevant and my sex, and any assumed gender, ignored at other times

This is just part of a push to make gender identity more significant than sex.

Because if giving birth isn't something women and only women do, how are you defining the word woman?

LynnSchmob Mon 02-Mar-20 16:14:02

Men don’t give birth. Ridiculous to think otherwise.

ThePolishWombat Mon 02-Mar-20 16:18:32

This new wording is not exclusive to maternity care either. The leaflet I received along with my letter inviting me for my smear stated that “anyone with a cervix” would be invited for a smear during the time frames dependant in age.

FloralBunting Mon 02-Mar-20 16:39:17

I haven't got the energy to go to bat with this one right now, but I will say this. While I accept this is the best of a bad bunch of alternatives to simply 'women', I noticed something when I saw the phrase in the title that I hadn't quite crystallized before.

'Woman or person who gave birth'

I've explained before that the phrase 'person who gave birth' or 'person with a uterus' is dehumanizing because it reduces the person involved down to the biological function referenced.

My position before was that it was slightly more acceptable if it was in addition to the word woman or women.

However, looking at that sentence I've noticed that when put together like that, the 'person who gave birth' part of the sentence actually functions to make 'woman' dehumanizing because it's suddenly a separate concept to be a woman than it is to be a person, which is obviously offensive nonsense.

The only way this sentence is acceptably 'inclusive' is if there is some linking punctuation between 'woman' and 'the person who have birth', to clarify that women are indeed people, too.

So, instead of

'women or person who gave birth'

You would have

'Woman, or person, who gave birth.'

Obviously, I think this is nuts, but if you are going to be straining at gnats to the point of issuing information on the basis of being inclusive, bloody well centre the women as well as the female people that don't wish to acknowledge it.

ThinEndoftheWedge Mon 02-Mar-20 16:39:32

At least they’ve included the word woman.

Mother... I like that word, especially when I have a new born.

Agree with other posters- how can misgendering be so awful and triggering, but it’s fine for a trans man to give birth.

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