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Sam Smethers Speaks! (Fawcett Society)

(10 Posts)
MForstater Fri 28-Feb-20 18:42:31

Sam Smethers has written a long post on sex, gender and single sex spaces.

Its a bit step forward I think and lots to chew on.

In amongst all the empathy and hedging around with language there is this

"It is often a balancing act between the rights of different groups"......

"For those who argue that there is no conflict, I think that is disingenuous and doesn't help to move us on. We have to confront the reality of why and how that conflict arises and then navigate it. "

OP’s posts: |
ReinstateLangCleg Fri 28-Feb-20 19:10:52

Interesting post and you're right that it's a step forward. A tentative one, but at least it's an acknowledgment of some sort.
How it has come to me being so grateful for these smallest of breadcrumbs, I do not know.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 28-Feb-20 19:18:03

It is a small step forward, and she makes some good points. However, there is an awful lot of trying not to offend TRAs which is a bit incongruous.

Languishingfemale Fri 28-Feb-20 19:23:07

I disagree with some of her points BUT I do recognise that compromise and 'negotiation' will be necessary. As so many younger women (and men) spout TWAW, we have to move to a position where women protecting sex based rights are not seen as hating on trans people and understanding that all responsible adults should be protecting children from making life long choices before they have the maturity to fully understand them.
But it's hard to shift given the torrent of abuse that women currently experience.

Beamur Fri 28-Feb-20 20:00:02

I think that's a thoughtful and interesting position from the Fawcett Society.
It is broadly GC and advocating third spaces.

HerewardTheWoke Fri 28-Feb-20 20:12:03

I notice she doesn't say whether she thinks women should be able to hold down employment while having GC views ...

ThinEndoftheWedge Fri 28-Feb-20 20:40:53

Sorry - I tried to read it - but she lost me on empathy and I couldn’t read anymore.

I have no empathy for anyone who seeks to deprive women and girls - particularly my 3 DDs - of the safety, dignity and privacy provided by single sex spaces, the dignity to self define, the ability to collect with whom we chose, the contempt shown of the meaning, consequences, experiences and outcomes due to being born and being female.

Not all transwomen advocate this. TRAs do.

It’s a big fat no from me.

If she stated something profound after the word empathy - then I will remain ignorant of it.

wellbehavedwomen Sat 29-Feb-20 00:44:15

The problem is, Fawcett are meant to advocate for women.

It's entirely right that trans orgs should advocate for their interests. That is the demographic they are meant to represent.

Fawcett is meant to represent women.

Notable, that the org meant to argue in our interests sees their role as honest broker, while Stonewall loudly argue for our wholesale erasure as a legally definable class.

Women are expected to apologise for taking up space and wanting a seat at the table. Stonewall are unapologetic about demanding to co-opt that space for their preferred group of males. And that, right there, is how we ended up at this terrible point to begin with. Women not saying that yes, we are fully human, and yes, our rights and needs matter as much as anyone else's and we will not be ashamed of asserting as much.

It's an improvement, on Fawcett's part, over arguing against us. But it's hardly enough.

SisyphusLangClegRocks Sat 29-Feb-20 01:21:52

What pile of lily livered wank. It's just a load of back pedaling waffle to try and cover their own arses - utterly meaningless drivel.

I accept this basic reality and regard trans women as women and trans men as men

Fuck off

Living as our authentic selves is what we all want isn't it?

Yeah, let's all sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya hmm

howard97A Sat 29-Feb-20 16:23:32

"I will be safeguarding and progressing women's rights while also supporting advances in trans rights. That is the fence side I want to be on."

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