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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Spectator - Labour’s trans rights problem

20 replies

BINtersectionalFeminism · 26/02/2020 03:03

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/labours-trans-rights-problem/

This may have been linked already but I couldn’t see it. Pulled no punches and well-informed - made me wonder if he reads MN.

OP posts:
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Igmum · 26/02/2020 03:27

Good article - thanks for posting OP

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FeckTheMagicDragon · 26/02/2020 04:05

Oh, bravo - that is a stirring article!

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WootMoggie · 26/02/2020 04:37

That was so good I read it twice, back-to-back. A cracking opening statement too:

"How do you save a party that doesn’t want to be saved?"

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MangoesAreMyFavourite · 26/02/2020 06:44

a movement that howls ‘forward!’ while standing perfectly still - or even goes backwards!

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OvaHere · 26/02/2020 06:59

"Here was someone they couldn’t intimidate. When half the planet wants you in the Hague for war crimes, you’re not going to lose any sleep over some anime fan accounts on Twitter."

Well...quite...Grin

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HPFA · 26/02/2020 07:08

Another article here about LGB people splitting from LGBT

www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/f9mfu9/what_do_you_think_gays_and_lesbians_are/

The link is inside - posted so that people could also see the comments.

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Binterested · 26/02/2020 08:23

Good article. Interesting that it doesn’t mention women or what their objections are. Mentions WPUK in passing but doesn’t set out any of their concerns. It’s more about the cult takeover.

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womaninblue · 26/02/2020 10:15

Yes, it doesn't go into any details and it shows no regard for women and feminism – but it's the Spectator, so what could we reasonably expect?

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Languishingfemale · 26/02/2020 11:01

As this is about a Spectator piece - here's a good article about the drag queen disaster:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/mhairi-blacks-drag-queen-stunt-has-backfired-spectacularly/

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vaginafetishist · 26/02/2020 14:18

This kind of stunt makes me dread LGBT History Month and the day when my daughter's primary decide to follow suit.

Hopefully they never will, it would make both of our lives more difficult at school.

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vaginafetishist · 26/02/2020 14:19

That's in response to the Drag Queen at school.

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MoleSmokes · 26/02/2020 22:03

What the heck is going on in the heads of these people??

Labour deputy leadership-hopeful Angela Rayner 'pretty upset' at Tony Blair's transgender comments
Sky News 21 Feb 2020

"Ms Rayner said she was "absolutely petrified" that there were party members who "think somehow some elements of our Labour Party do not think they are valid or somehow there is a question about who they should be"."

news.sky.com/story/labour-deputy-leadership-hopeful-angela-rayner-pretty-upset-at-tony-blairs-transgender-comments-11939128

"absolutely petrified" ???

Really?? Why??

She sounds completely deranged!

(That sentence is grammatically deranged but we get the gist.)

I could understand if she had said, "she was "absolutely petrified" that there were party members who "think somehow it is a good idea to lock rapists up with vulnerable women"."

or

"she said she was "absolutely petrified" that party members like herself had been hypnotised into "thinking somehow it is a good idea to remove all sex-based protections from women"."

Are Rayner, Long-Bailey, Dawn Butler, Nandy and the rest all in the grip of something like "Stockholm Syndrome"??

THE CHARACTERISTICS OF STOCKHOLM SYNDROME

It may be easier to understand Stockholm syndrome as an actual survival strategy for victims. This is because it seems to increase victims’ chances of survival and is believed to be a necessary tactic for defending psychologically and physically against experiencing an abusive, toxic, and controlling relationship. Stockholm syndrome is often found in toxic relationships where a power differential exists, such as between a parent and child or spiritual leader and congregant. Some signs of Stockholm syndrome include:

- Positive regard towards perpetrators of abuse or captors.

- Failure to cooperate with police and other government authorities when it comes to holding perpetrators of abuse or kidnapping accountable.

- Little or not effort to escape.

- Belief in the goodness of the perpetrators or kidnappers.

- Appeasement of captors. This is a manipulative strategy for maintaining one’s safety. As victims get rewarded—perhaps with less abuse or even with life itself—their appeasing behaviors are reinforced.

- Learned helplessness. This can be akin to “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.” As the victims fail to escape the abuse or captivity, they may start giving up and soon realize it’s just easier for everyone if they acquiesce all their power to their captors.

- Feelings of pity toward the abusers, believing they are actually victims themselves. Because of this, victims may go on a crusade or mission to “save” their abuser.

- Unwillingness to learn to detach from their perpetrators and heal. In essence, victims may tend to be less loyal to themselves than to their abuser.

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/why-stockholm-syndrome-happens-and-how-to-help-0926184

I know this has been posted already in the threads about Lisa Nandy but Malcolm Clark's brief spin through a history of "contagious emotions" and "social delusions", the "madness of crowds" looks familiar too:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1229539824031485952.html

There is no way all these MPs, not just in the Labour Party, are all smitten with the "queer agenda". They just seem oblivious to it, sleepwalking. Some of them are lawyers FFS but seem blinkered by their focus on a tiny minority, incapable of a breadth of vision that would allow them to pay attention to the society-wide ramifications and consequences of proposed legislative changes.

The only thing that might save the day, so we do not end up like the totalitarian mess that is Canada, is that more and more people are asking questions and they are struggling to answer logically and reasonably. Their cognitive dissonance is showing and it must hurt.

Maybe that is what accounts for Angela Rayner's panic, the real reason she is "absolutely petrified", and the flat-out batshit crazy pronouncements of the famously "sensible" Lisa Nandy?

I can't see Rebecca Long-Bailey or Dawn Butler clawing their way back to rationality somehow, too far gone into the mind-warp. They make me think of last-century TV interviews with once-upon-a-time debutants, simpering in their dotage over the good old days when "dear Adolf" was such a flirt!

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MangoesAreMyFavourite · 27/02/2020 06:57

Most interesting MoleSmokes

Also says this - Deputy leadership candidate Angela Rayner responded by saying: ‘Trans rights are human rights and we have an absolute obligation as the Labour Party to lead that fight.’

Absolute obligation ? Like this is a founding principle or the main goal of the labour party?

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ScrimshawTheSecond · 27/02/2020 08:13

That is interesting. I wonder if there's such a thing as collective Stockholm Syndrome?

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Aesopfable · 27/02/2020 08:38

Ms Rayner said she was "absolutely petrified" that there were party members who "think somehow some elements of our Labour Party do not think they are valid or somehow there is a question about who they should be"."

She is right to be pretrified but she has it back to front: TRAs think women are not valid and should be excluded.

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Joisanofthedales · 27/02/2020 08:43

It's more like Trans rights are stolen rights. The rights for women to have single sex spaces have been stolen.

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hoodathunkit · 27/02/2020 08:57

The Labour leadership has a problem with reality. The promotion of the more extreme elements of trans activism is just one aspect of a wider disease

e..g.

Homeopathy

Jeremy Corbyn was one of 206 MPs to sign the March 2007 Early Day Motion 1240 calling for the positive recognition of NHS homeopathic hospitals[1].

Following the publication of the House of Commons' Science and Technology Committee's report "Evidence Check 2: Homeopathy" in February 2010, Corbyn signed Early Day Motion 908: Science and Technology Committee Report on Homeopathy, which was critical of the report[2].

He was asked on Twitter why he had signed EDM 908[3]. He replied:

jeremycorbyn @leftoutside I believe that homeo-meds works for some ppl and that it compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter... (7:33 PM Mar 5th)[4]
In May 2011, Jeremy Corbyn signed Early Day Motion 1820 which welcomed a campaign to "place homeopathy research on the national agenda as a credible scientific field of inquiry" and called for the Government to facilitate research into homeopathy[5].

During the 2016 Labour leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn was asked by the group Scientists for Labour about the NHS "funding alternative and homeopathic medicine". He answered:

I don't support the NHS spending taxpayers’ money on medicine where it is not backed up by clear, scientific evidence as to its effectiveness.[6]
Herbal Medicines

Jeremy Corbyn has signed a number of Early Day Motions that support the use of herbal medicines. These include EDM 1103: Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive (2005)[7], EDM 1549: Herbal Clinic at The Royal London Homeopathic Hospital (2008)[8], EDM 2080: Herbal Remedies (2008)[9], and EDM 295: Statutory Registration of Herbalists (2009)[10].

skeptical-voter.org/index.php?title=Jeremy_Corbyn#Homeopathy




Homeopathy
John McDonnell was one of 206 MPs to sign the March 2007 Early Day Motion 1240 calling for the positive recognition of NHS homeopathic hospitals[2].

Following the publication of the House of Commons' Science and Technology Committee's report "Evidence Check 2: Homeopathy" in February 2010, Mr McDonnell signed Early Day Motion 908: Science and Technology Committee Report on Homeopathy, which was critical of the report[3].

In June 2010, Mr McDonnell signed Early Day Motion 342: British Medical Association Motions on Homeopathy[4] which expressed regret at a number of motions passed at the recent BMA annual representative meeting that "oppose further commissioning and funding of homeopathic remedies in the NHS", and "notes that 140 books have been published on homeopathy and that there is overwhelming anecdotal evidence that homeopathy is effective".

In July 2012 Mr McDonnell spoke to homeopathy campaigners at a meeting in the House of Commons about their concerns about potential restrictions to access to homeopathy (e.g. Medicines Act, NHS funding of homeopathy). It was reported (by a supporter of homeopathy) that Mr McDonnell would table an Early Day Motion and "ask MPs to have ministerial meeting to gain some assurance"[5]. Such an EDM does not appear to have been proposed.

Herbal Medicines
In November 2009, John McDonnell proposed Early Day Motion 295: Statutory Registration of Herbalists[6]. The motion stated:

That this House notes that certain herbal medicines, including Ayurveda, Chinese medicine, Kampo, traditional Tibetan medicine, Unani Tibb and western herbal medicine, may be effectively outlawed in the UK by the EU unless statutory regulation is introduced by the Government before April 2011, and that the Government's recent consultation on this issue has concluded; and therefore calls on the Government to bring forward promptly a statutory system for registering and regulating herbalists, acupuncturists and practitioners of other traditional medicine systems to meet the EU requirements and thus ensure that patients continue to have access to the full range of traditional medicines they are currently able to receive.
Mr McDonnell has signed a number of other Early Day Motions that support the use of herbal medicines. These include EDM 1103: Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive (2005)[7], EDM 1549: Herbal Clinic at The Royal London Homeopathic Hospital (2008)[8], and EDM 2080: Herbal Remedies (2008)[9].

skeptical-voter.org/index.php?title=John_McDonnell

If the Labour leadership do not comprehend science and medicine why should we expect them to understand sex?

Of course this is not just a problem with Labour. Frankly other parties are just as bad.

Is it too much to expect of our politicians that they possess at least a basic understanding of science reality?

Should be be exploring issues around starting a new, science and evidence based political party? I think the enswer is "yes"

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RoyalCorgi · 27/02/2020 09:09

If the Labour leadership do not comprehend science and medicine why should we expect them to understand sex?

You make a good point and yet, as we've seen, this idiocy isn't confined to the Labour Party. Look at the Royal Institute's tweet yesterday about "if you identify as a woman". Look at Alice Roberts, a qualified doctor.

Look too at the lawyers, the judges, the academics, the child protection specialists, the teachers, the police forces, the local authorities who have all bought into this nonsense. An inability - or unwillingness - to understand basic science is not unique to the Labour Party.

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hoodathunkit · 27/02/2020 09:20

I agree 100% RoyalCorgi

This is why we need a new political party based on science and reality.

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hoodathunkit · 27/02/2020 09:23

I wonder whether it might be useful to make better use of the Skeptical Voter website in relation to trans issues and denial of scientific reality?

It might also be useful to determine the extent to which politicians who deny biological sex are likely to endorse homeopathy / herbal medicine etc.

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