Talk

Advanced search

Clare Foges in The Times

(15 Posts)
TimeLady Mon 24-Feb-20 05:39:37

Another good opinion piece in The Times today.

Increasingly the upper echelons of the Labour Party seem to be the creation of some calculating Tory millionaire who has paid a band of actors to say things so electorally repellent that the socialists will be out of power for a generation.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/70f4db0a-5681-11ea-8d8f-51ad578bbcfe?shareToken=1808cd7fd0d18a93520751b1c54c9af1

OP’s posts: |
TimeLady Mon 24-Feb-20 05:41:10

Dammit, forgot to make it a clicky link

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/70f4db0a-5681-11ea-8d8f-51ad578bbcfe?shareToken=1808cd7fd0d18a93520751b1c54c9af1

OP’s posts: |
bellinisurge Mon 24-Feb-20 06:01:53

Thank you for the link. Strikes quite a chord.

Daca Mon 24-Feb-20 06:34:20

Thanks for the link. I agree with the diagnosis of moral vanity and the frantic search for causes but disagree that it’s about trivial culture wars as a substitute for tackling the great problems of our age. It is also about policy and institutional capture, the charity sector and NGOs and deep-seated issues in academic theorising and debate. Gets most of the issue but trivialises some.

RuffleCrow Mon 24-Feb-20 06:41:18

So true! And they're also doing the same in the Lib Dems and Greens.

RuffleCrow Mon 24-Feb-20 06:45:12

And that's a good point @daca. Labour might be saying these crazy things, but the Tories are the ones who actually let Karen White et al into a women's prison in the first place!

Catting Mon 24-Feb-20 06:53:10

Is this the tide turning? It's been daily articles, radio spots, and tv debates now.
Now that the drama of brexit is over, is this going to be the next big thing?

bellinisurge Mon 24-Feb-20 07:30:07

Maybe it is. Or maybe more people are paying attention and saying WTF. Duncan Bannatyne for example.

Lamahaha Mon 24-Feb-20 07:57:57

Here are problems we feel we really can solve, whether we are woke warriors on Twitter piling on to some hapless person for making an unthinking (and career-ending) remark, or one of the sensible majority trying to speak out against the latest PC lunacy.
This is so true, and it's turned up in my own family. Both my adult children agree that the transagenda is ridiculous; both are GC. But my son thinks my "obsession" with trans issues is over the top. "What about children starving in Yemen? What about kids being bombed in wherever?" (It's always about kids)

He thinks this is caring about the big picture, the bigger world problems, and of course I agree with him that children starving somewhere in the world is more important than which toilet men use. And I can only argue that nothing I can do, here and now, is going to feed those children or stop those bombs, and so I speak out about toilets, which does seem trivial in comparison.

The only reason transacitivism has come to be a thing is because we really don't have huge problems as a society, and so we obsess over nebulous things like identity.

During the London Blitz, I bet there was no man aching to be a woman, or vice versa. Not a single one. If you are afraid a bomb could drop on your roof, or worried about a son flying spitfires over Germany, I bet you wouldn't worry about the "literal violence" of being misgendered.

Third World Problems, indeed.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Mon 24-Feb-20 10:36:22

This bit, though:
'The greedy boss class has been chastened by workplace rules, the overtly racist and homophobic brought to heel by equality legislation, the misogynist dinosaurs humbled by the rise of professional, capable women.'

Sorry, but what? The first bit especially. Yes there is workplace regulation there didn't used to be, but there are people scraping by on less than living wages despite working full time, or doing two jobs, or living precariously on zero hour contracts.
I think her implication that the left are focusing on culture war issues in part because the old style left wing battles don't exist to be fought any more is a complete misdiagnosis. The inequality is there but Labour doesn't seem interested in fighting it any more, I suspect because it's increasingly dominated by middle class students.

Nameofchanges Mon 24-Feb-20 10:44:26

Lama, but what if this stuff reaches the UN, WHO, FAO?

At the moment all these organisations have a massive focus on women’s rights. If genderism gets a hold here, it will take hold in international bodies that protect the most vulnerable women and girls in the world. Refugees, trafficked women, victims of genocidal rape.

The stakes are really high. It’s not just a first world problem, not when first world beliefs are so influential in the corridors of power.

OvaHere Mon 24-Feb-20 11:09:49

It's reached the UNWomen twitter account.

Justhadathought Mon 24-Feb-20 11:24:49

Quite a good piece, although I do think she under-estimates how important it is to retain a material view of the world regarding single sex spaces/sports etc; and also the rising tide of TRA ideology in schools.

The thing is, even commentators such as herself, are still not fully aware or up to speed with the full range of issues and consequences that accompany TRA ideology. So far, it is mainly just about toilets and prisons.......as important as they are.

The tide may be turning - but it is going to turn very slowly - and will require a lot more effort and education, yet. And It is going to require co-operation from the various media in exposing some of what is going on........

Also, what happens in the US will impact on what happens here...and on how it is presented. Let's just hope Elizabeth Warren never gets elected.

Qcng Mon 24-Feb-20 11:44:10

what if this stuff reaches the UN, WHO
It has already?
I think the WHO have been behind a lot of "People with vaginas"
"People who have receptive vaginal sex"
"People with a Cervix"
health campaigning.

Nameofchanges Mon 24-Feb-20 12:51:25

I really hope that is not the case. They still seem to be referring to women, mothers and girls on their website. They also say this:

‘Gender refers to the roles, behaviours, activities, attributes and opportunities that any society considers appropriate for girls and boys, and women and men. Gender interacts with, but is different from, the binary categories of biological sex.’

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in