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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

The Times View on Harry Miller,Twitter & the trans debates:Thought Police 15/2/20

42 replies

mimivanne · 15/02/2020 00:59

Excellent Leader in the Times,it feels like a turning point.

If anyone can do a share token,thanks

OP posts:
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ErrolTheDragon · 15/02/2020 01:25
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Fallingirl · 15/02/2020 01:27

Very pleased about no 10 expressing a willingness to push for a review of the guidelines.

And puuuuuuuulllll....

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ErrolTheDragon · 15/02/2020 01:27

And for completeness, though there's another thread and it's a different topic, Janice Turners column

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labours-trans-pledge-says-anyone-who-disagrees-is-a-bigot-trlh72r0l?shareToken=7cd9f45aea12445dba720ec2b6ee882d

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BoreOfWhabylon · 15/02/2020 02:06

It does indeed feel like a turning point. Long overdue.

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DryHeave · 15/02/2020 03:31

From the article: “Suffolk police were criticised for contacting a 74-year-old woman who tweeted “gender is BS” and telling her to “tone down” her posts. They later called back to apologise.”

WHAT?!

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BoreOfWhabylon · 15/02/2020 04:29

Margaret Nelson - @Flashmaggie on Twitter

www.faircop.org.uk/margaret-nelson

It got a lot of press attention at the time

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/why-are-the-police-stopping-a-74-year-old-tweeting-about-transgenderism/

There were a few threads on here too.

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Lamahaha · 15/02/2020 04:56

*the freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having.”

This is gold. When I hear the words I'm offended I have to roll my eyes. I was taught as a child not to be offended. Sticks and stones and all that.

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eurochick · 15/02/2020 06:33

I just came here to post this. Front page of The Times - wow!

The Times View on Harry Miller,Twitter & the trans debates:Thought Police 15/2/20
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mcduffy · 15/02/2020 07:15

And the comments!
I did feel a bit despondent a week or so back but then read that this fightback might well be two steps forward and one back. This feels like three forward Grin

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boatyardblues · 15/02/2020 07:17

There are already more than 1,000 comments under the front page article (Errol’s first sharetoken link). People are not happy about the creeping authoritarianism in this debate and are supportive of Harry’s case.

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TheShoesa · 15/02/2020 07:19

Thank you for the share tokens.

Is the puberty blocker article linked to in the leader worthy of its own thread? (Disputed trans guide gets NHS nod) It starts with this gem

'Three NHS trusts have endorsed a guide for transgender patients that approves puberty blockers and declares that anatomy “is not always a good guide” to determining a child’s sex.

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 15/02/2020 07:23

It's a watershed moment.

So much respect for Harry for having the resilience to take it this far.

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 15/02/2020 07:25

I also have a huge crush on Mr Justice Knowles. He's a boy from an estate in Manchester who done good, he's done some good work prior to this too, and I think he's also got a good sense of humour.

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HandsOffMyLangCleg · 15/02/2020 07:34

Thanks for the shares. And thanks to The Times for giving this so much coverage.

I'm so grateful to Harry (and Kate, Maya and all) for pursuing truth and justice and our right to free speech.

Good to see Flash Maggie in there too, she's great.

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BovaryX · 15/02/2020 07:38

The Times editorial piece is brilliant. It is great to see this getting such prominent coverage in The Times and in the Telegraph. The threat to freedom of speech, the police operating on behalf of a lobby group, it's all there, exposed to public scrutiny.

No one in a free society expects to receive a visit from the police for expressing a political opinion. Yet this is what happened to Harry Miller after he was reported to Humberside police for supposedly transphobic tweets. Among his offending tweets were a limerick that he had “liked” and a tweet that he had posted reading: “I was assigned mammal at birth, but my orientation is fish. Don’t mis-species me.” Police recorded Mr Miller’s tweets as a “non-crime hate incident”, visited his place of work and gave him the impression that he could be prosecuted if he continued to tweet. Yesterday the High Court ruled that the force had disproportionately interfered with Mr Miller’s freedom of expression. In so doing it has struck an important blow for free speech

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Languishingfemale · 15/02/2020 07:47

So many comments under that article from people who rarely comment - and almost universal horror at what's happened. We need to keep up the pressure on the government to roll back the influence of these toxic groups on schools etc.
And here's a share token for the outstanding Janice Turner's column on the witch hunt in the labour party:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3a8b02a4-4f49-11ea-b112-75acb94b3417?shareToken=22eb2a836e2b5ef695f367ab7f6f6f3e

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Igneococcus · 15/02/2020 07:55

Here is a sharetoken for the NHS article, I can't see a link to it yet:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d7d6724-4f57-11ea-b112-75acb94b3417?shareToken=2e175e8c35c6b74d629a6ea97c4ce438

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nauticant · 15/02/2020 14:13

The Times is very interesting today, they're going in hard over the trans issue.

They've got 4 major articles, the front page on the Harry Miller case that extends into the paper, the article about the NHS and the transgender guide, the leader column tying these two aspects together, and the Janice Tuner column.

When you stop and think, it becomes clear that they've gone for the three main strands:
free speech (the main interest of The Times)
safeguarding of children
women's rights.

This is at a time when many people will be thinking for the first time "hang on, what's all this trans business?" and will be receptive to finding out more. Applause for The Times.

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mcduffy · 15/02/2020 15:19

Also the cycling article in sport about testosterone limits

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nauticant · 15/02/2020 16:17

Ha! I'd missed it. In that case, well done The Times on covering in one day:
free speech (the main interest of The Times)
safeguarding of children
women's rights, including the damage being done to women's sports

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BINtersectionalFeminism · 15/02/2020 18:54

“an unregulated live experiment on children”.

Spot on.

Yes I agree it’s good to see a multi-pronged approach from the Times.

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TheRealMcKenna · 15/02/2020 19:20

I came across this concept today:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_falsification

There is another term (that I can’t remember) which is used to describe the moment that the falsified belief system everyone stays silent about suddenly collapses when enough people gain confidence to call b*llshit on it. I think we’re now reaching that moment (and about time).

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mcduffy · 15/02/2020 19:22

Oh I was feeling something like that, McKenna.
People in real life are starting to send me things and sound me out where they need reassurance and clarification. Not many are buying it!

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Languishingfemale · 15/02/2020 20:17

The comments under all three articles in the Times have made fascinating reading. Thousands of comments with the majority completely understanding the key issues. And some sterling responses from women (and some men) updating / educating people only just starting to get to grips with the issue.

Trans HQ must be having conniptions. Never has #nodebate seemed more crass and irrelevant

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