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Sexual pleasure isn’t the sole key to women’s freedom – just ask sex workers and Muslim women

(12 Posts)
stumbledin Thu 13-Feb-20 23:55:33

Just posting this because it is another of those bonkers articles the Independent seems to specialise in. (Cant remember the one I posted earlier but it was equally illogical.)

Quote: "The message that you can’t have women’s liberation without sexual liberation is practically forced down women’s throats by society, patronising men and even feminists these days. But what was originally meant to give women space for political liberation, has transformed into a marketable capitalist venture that utterly ignores intersectionality. For sex workers and Muslim women, the concept of sexual liberation is much more complex."

So anyway having written this concoted notion that somehow feminists are forcing sex workers to enjoy sex and shame Muslim women for being modest the writer then admitted on twitter they probably should have written it because they are non binary.

Are these people existing in an isolated silo somewhere completely cut off from real life??

Enjoy! grin

OP’s posts: |
Bezalelle Fri 14-Feb-20 07:49:42

Do Muslim women not enjoy sex?

QuentinWinters Fri 14-Feb-20 08:19:10

Can you link please stumbled?

stumbledin Fri 14-Feb-20 13:48:58

many apologies blush

Posting late at night always go wrong!

Link www.independent.co.uk/voices/sex-work-positive-education-feminism-muslim-islamophobia-hijab-a9332061.html

OP’s posts: |
JurgenKloppsCat Fri 14-Feb-20 14:05:15

I assume sex worker is a euphemism for prostitution. Should women be allowed to be prostitutes?

'Some of us are already battling people who want to ‘rescue’ us.'

I assumed from this quote that that is what the author is referring to.

Goosefoot Fri 14-Feb-20 14:10:19

I think it's quite an interesting article, actually. And it isn't that far from what a lot of people on FWR have said many times. "Sex positivity" is shallow and individualistic and capitalist, and it's responsible for a lot of problematic issues for women.

Even the bit on sex work I think has some worthwhile points. They've started with the premise that sex work is just work, but the argument they are making IMO applies more widely. This business about sexual consent needing to be "enthusiastic" is problematic in many ways, that the only valid reason for having sex is a fairly narrow definition of sexual pleasure. The consent is enough model is inadequate, but TBH I am not surprised they start there, pop culture really has nothing else.

JurgenKloppsCat Fri 14-Feb-20 14:15:45

I always thought sex positivity was just trying to create an equivalent trope for women that men are supposed to enjoy regarding casual sex.

Beamur Fri 14-Feb-20 14:20:50

My take on sexual liberation was birth control, not enjoyment of sex.
By being able to prevent unwanted pregnancy, women are able - if they want to - to have sex for other reasons.
It's not obligatory to turn that into sexual Olympics.

stumbledin Fri 14-Feb-20 14:21:29

I just think it is an article that has drown together two strands that may be being discussed in some rarified bubble somewhere but is hardly the talking point or worries of most people.

I think article like this and the willingness of the Independent to publish them is par of the attempt to make feminism look like a lot of phsyco babble.

Unless of course these writers are all children of some of the Indie's employee's.

Please give me any indication where any feminists, in mean actual feminists not social media influencers, are talking about "sex positivity".

The issue about "sex work" ie prostitution isn't about are women being paid to have sex with men because they enjoy sex, but why it is in the economic sense it is primarily women who are being paid to do something which in all other contexts we insists is something that should be a choice.

And the attempt to link it to Muslim women is just a stretch too far.

I suppose it is possible the writer had been with a group of immature students who might have somehow thought they were talking sense late one night, but to be the basis of a newspaper article is just ludicrous.

Who and when did anyone claim that sexual pleasure was the key to women's freedom?

I can imagine it might be something hugh heffner said in playboy but nowhere else.

Dilettante feminism.

OP’s posts: |
Nameofchanges Fri 14-Feb-20 15:09:25

It’s a bit of a word salad, but there are some good points in there.

It was the case that ‘sex positivity’ was heavily pushed for the first fifteen years of this century, with pro porn attitudes. There was a strong link to capitalism. Women were encouraged to commodify their sexuality and see that commodification as sexually enjoyable.

Muslim women are probably being used as the example in the article because traditional marriage doesn’t fit well into the intersectional model young people are encouraged to explain everything within. Much of sexuality within a traditional marriage is about holding a marriage together, not about people’s enthusiastic expression of their own sexuality. Young people end up debating all matters of traditional values through the example of Muslims for a variety of reasons. One being an avoidance of scrutinising why people exactly like them are making totally different choices with their lives.

Binocular Tue 18-Feb-20 08:06:19

Apparently the writer is pro sex workers but she's also a Muslim? Dont really know how that works. Her entire Twitter timeline from what I can see is filled with Anarchist thinking and sex workers rights, but doesnt seem as loud about anti-trafficking communities. Can tell she might be really young with all the "Fuck The State" attitude stapled all over her social media. Certainly not from the West either with her name. Had a quick google and she seems vocal about her "Wokeness". Is Independent really taking in a bunch of Anarchists-whose-name-we-cant-pronounce writing about things-they-dont-know?

The world certainly needs less of her kind around. Maybe take her feminism elsewhere and go on terrorising other parts of the internet hmm

KitKatKit Tue 18-Feb-20 08:14:47

@Binocular
"Certainly not from the West with her name". You racist turd!
NEWSFLASH: you can be from the West and be called whatever the hell you like!

"Maybe take her feminism elsewhere and go on terrorising other parts of the internet". MINDBLOWN - a woman qualified and paid to write an article in a broadsheet newspaper is now being referred to as "terrorising". The language you use is inflammatory.
It's brilliant how the Muslim woman "not from the West" is more articulate than you are.
Ignorant twat.

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