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WHO are SOOO transphobic!!

(107 Posts)
poshme Thu 13-Feb-20 19:35:22

Apparently coronavirus is more severe for men than for women.

They're reporting this based on sex.
Good thing they're not members of the Labour Party.

I wonder if RLB would consider this to be a reasonable time to discuss sex or whether it would be deemed to be transphobic.

nocoolnamesleft Thu 13-Feb-20 19:36:56

Seem to remember a paper not that long ago showing flu tended to be worse for the male of the species, too. Almost like there are biological differences.

titchy Thu 13-Feb-20 19:38:53

* Almost like there are biological differences.*

No surely not shock

Evenquieterlife33 Thu 13-Feb-20 19:40:33

Man flu.

poshme Thu 13-Feb-20 19:45:01

BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES!!!!

No. That can't be.

exWifebeginsAgainat46 Thu 13-Feb-20 19:46:06

this really is turning into transgender bingo. is there any subject you won’t turn into a soapbox for your obsession?

last week, a ‘who can lift a chair’ article from the Daily Mail suggested as a ‘which toilet should you use’ test. now coronavirus is connected to the Labour Party’s transgender statement.

i mean, i see what you’re doing, here. it just seems so endlessly...endless and doesn’t really further whatever cause it is you’re actually championing.

ridiculous.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost Thu 13-Feb-20 19:47:29

ridiculous.

And yet you bumped the thread up.

ThinEndoftheWedge Thu 13-Feb-20 20:02:23

I think OP is making a very clear point - lost to most of society it now seems.

Sex matters...

If you think statistics of incidence and severity of disease should be gender based - we might as use your bingo to direct healthcare - will be as accurate.

Two fat ladies ...(88) - or is that not inclusive enough?!

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis Thu 13-Feb-20 20:10:34

this really is turning into transgender bingo. is there any subject you won’t turn into a soapbox for your obsession?

This, I mean WTF grin
I actually laughed out loud, it's just so ridiculous on here lately.

Al1Langdownthecleghole Thu 13-Feb-20 20:12:27

Why has no one has told the corona virus that TWAW?

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis Thu 13-Feb-20 20:14:23

last week, a ‘who can lift a chair’ article from the Daily Mail suggested as a ‘which toilet should you use’ test.

Errrrr........ confused
Nope, I got nuffin. How does lifting a chair segue into which toilet you should use?!
Definitely missed that thread.

NotBadConsidering Thu 13-Feb-20 20:25:08

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

Do you believe the fact that there are two sexes, there are biological differences between those two sexes, and those differences matter in our society?

It’s a simple yes or no.

You can laugh and call everyone ridiculous but only if you think the answer to this question is no. If you think the answer is yes, then you must surely agree that having most of the world understand the importance of sex-based differences but have the potential leaders of a major party in the UK trying to pretend that they don’t is not something to mock, but a matter of grave concern.

So do sex-based differences matter or not?

wellbehavedwomen Thu 13-Feb-20 20:28:03

i mean, i see what you’re doing, here. it just seems so endlessly...endless and doesn’t really further whatever cause it is you’re actually championing.

Women's rights. Identified by biological sex. Which we are increasingly being bullied over, because we call bullshit when told sex is 'a social construct'.

Biology is real. It matters. And you can't change sex. Medical facts mean that no hormones or cosmetic surgery or voice training alter that basic fact.

Trans people have every right to live as they feel is in their best interests, free from bullying, bigotry, harassment and harm. Gender roles are bullshit, and anyone should be welcomed in living their best life without reference to them. But men are a danger, as a sex class, to women, as a sex class. We have a right to single sex spaces. Women are oppressed as a sex class. We have a right to separate provision, and self-determination, and a right to organise as a collective. We don't have to centre male people in our feminism. We have the right to centre female people in our feminism. If some males find that painful, well... so what? That's their problem, not ours. Nobody's stopping them from forming their own groups, and fighting for their own provision. Women's needs and rights are our problem, and we get to decide what a woman is. Not men.

You can patronise, and jeer, and sneer all you like. I really don't give a shit, because anyone coming from the standpoint that women should not have any of the above rights is not a person whose views have merit, worth, or basic human decency.

Barracker Thu 13-Feb-20 20:57:46

What is it that you want, exWifebeginsAgainat46?

Should we NOT reference sex, ever, even where it affects whether you die or not?

Or is it that we can reference sex, but mustn't point out the relevance of mentioning sex on a day when a bunch of political leaders all declared that referencing sex is exclusionary?

Or is it that you'd just like the whole world to perpetually pretend sex isn't real or important, because it's easier to maintain a myth if people don't keep pointing out you're maintaining a myth?

I honestly wonder why some people hang out on a forum section based entirely upon discussion around the difference between the sexes and expect to be taken seriously when they scold us for talking about the differences between the sexes.

Aren't there some gender based forums that you'd find more soothing to participate in?

Siameasy Thu 13-Feb-20 20:59:47

Men are more expendable. Maybe the poor fuckers actually do suffer more

RicketyLangClegety Thu 13-Feb-20 21:13:08

this really is turning into transgender bingo. is there any subject you won’t turn into a soapbox for your obsession?

Honestly I think the title was kind of a giveaway. If you're not interested in the rise of New Wave Genderism, why would you even click on the thread?

DuLANGMondeFOREVER Thu 13-Feb-20 21:17:16

Boys with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia need a whole year’s worth of extra chemotherapy than girls.
Disease doesn’t care what you identify as, only which body type you have.

Men who receive transplanted hearts from female donors are far more likely to die within a year than men who get a male heart, women who get a female heart and women who get a male heart.

You can think we are ridiculous to discuss these things if you like, but the people who are most at risk from ignorance in these matters are women (because the medical research default has been male) and trans people who have changed the sex marker on their medical records.

Like the transman whose baby was stillborn without any of the A&E staff even realising the pregnancy existed (because the medical records read ‘M’ so the triage screening procedure didn’t ask the relevant questions, despite the patient telling staff they were trans).
Or the transman with chronic kidney disease who didn’t qualify for a donor kidney because the male threshold was inappropriately used instead of the female threshold.

Sex matters.

Michelleoftheresistance Thu 13-Feb-20 21:26:26

My blood test results are biology focused in that the expected markers were based on my biological sex to define what treatment I needed. Female is a material reality. Its ridiculous to try and hide that it is, and it certainly isn't to the benefit of females.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis Thu 13-Feb-20 21:33:31

Do you believe the fact that there are two sexes, there are biological differences between those two sexes, and those differences matter in our society? It’s a simple yes or no

I agree it's a simple yes or no.
Men and women are biologically different.
It's not going to make me not accept trans women though.
Doesn't change the fact I'm still a bit WTF about how your ability to lift a chair has anything to do with which toilets you can visit?!

borntobequiet Thu 13-Feb-20 21:39:24

I can lift a chair <proud>

NotBadConsidering Thu 13-Feb-20 21:47:50

It's not going to make me not accept trans women though

No one has asked you not to accept them, in such vague terms; presumably accept them as part of society and existing? Everyone accepts that.

But do you accept that these sex-based differences matter in discussing rights?

Or do you think that men and women are biologically different, and that the only place that matters is when discussing viruses and chairs, as opposed to legislation and politicians?

The chair thread was a flippant example of how people are happy to talk about sex-based differences with something as stupid as how we lift chairs, but women are told to shut up when it comes to actual serious issues such as single sex spaces, refuges and prisons etc.

So you accept men and women are biologically different, and you accept trans women. Does this mean you recognise that sex-based differences need to be discussed and factored in to any serious discussion and policy?

Poota Thu 13-Feb-20 21:51:44

HahaHaha. Are some people having problems understanding posts pointing out why sex matters on FWR again? Ah well, at least people keep reading. God loves a trier.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis Thu 13-Feb-20 22:00:50

I can lift a chair <proud>

So can I! So if you can lift a chair, what bog do you get to go in then?

NotBadConsidering Thu 13-Feb-20 22:07:08

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

Do you think that we should base entry into single sex spaces on jokes about chairs, or do you think the sex-based differences you agree exist should form the basis of a more serious discussion about it?

Barracker Thu 13-Feb-20 22:15:14

Men and women are biologically different. It's not going to make me not accept trans women though.

Accept them as what?

You've literally just said it.
The unsayable thing, the thing that you chide others for saying.

You correctly noted that the two sexes are distinguished from each other by their biological differences. Physical, reproductive, anatomical differences. Not by empty declarations, or strong feelings, or unsubstantiated identities, or personality types. You can't divide the human race into two different sex categories that way, it's a lie.

We differ, the sexes, as you conceded, by our bodies. By the lives those bodies carry us through, the functions those bodies perform, the abilities those bodies possess, and by the way the world treats us from the second we are born in one or the other of those two types of distinguishable bodies. Female body, male body. Girl, boy. Woman, man.
Bodies. Nothing else.

Men have one type of biological anatomy. Women the other. 'Men' and 'women' are words that are placeholders for the sexed anatomy of our human bodies. Valuable, clear, meaningful words.
Your body determines your sex.
Those words, those references to our bodies, are of immense importance. If you mix them up, people suffer, and even die. If you drain them of meaning, people suffer, and even die. If you try to redefine them into something untrue, into a type of personality, people suffer, even die. If you lie about them, distort them, to appease people, other people suffer, even die.

Leave the words woman and man intact. We need those words to be unequivocally clear, so that when we use them, there is perfect clarity about who and what we are referring to, and people do not suffer as a consequence.

There are a million words that can be used for men who want their feelings, choices, desires and identities acknowledged as a communal group, and as long as every member of that group has a mutual understanding of why they are grouped, how they are similar, and is in agreement and happily consents? Let them choose any one of a million virginal words to become their own label, with its own undisputed meaning.
But there is no way that they can corrupt the meaning of the words that exclusively reference the bodies of the opposite sex. Those female words will not be altered, distorted, made useless. They are of ultimate value to women. Men must choose another word, and it can describe them perfectly, and it will not be at the cost of women.

I accept the people who name themselves 'transwomen' too - I accept them as members of the opposite sex to me, as males, and yes, I accept them as men just as I accept all men as men.

That what acceptance really means. I see you as you are, and I will not lie to you.

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