Bbc article about filmed rape on pornhub

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51391981

Trigger warning - graphic descriptions of sexual violence.

This article has really disturbed me. Her description of her state after the attack, bloodied and beaten, and the police asking her "was it consensual? Was it a wild night gone too far?" And after it was discovered that the footage was on pornhub, how her classmates not only watched it but bullied her over it, with parents telling their sons to stay away from her in case she "seduced them and accused them of rape". This is footage of an unconscious 14 year old beaten to within an inch of her life being violently raped, and people still blamed her and accused her of lying. And how it took so long for pornhub to take the footage down, only when she pretended to be a lawyer. What chance does the victim of revenge porn, or the rape which didn't leave her almost dead, or where their was initially consent have, when even such an extreme and clear example of rape is treated this way?

The thing that shocked me most though is that pornhub still has videos up titled "unconscious teen gets abused" with the justification that it's a "popular fantasy" and "all forms of sexual expression should be allowed". It's so revolting to me that any man could be aroused by that. Without doubt a lot of men who watch porn are watching rape and they just don't give a shit.

I don't know how we come back from this. I was reading an autobiography the other day where the author was describing visiting a porn shop in the 80s, and how the feminist bookshop opposite would put cameras in their window to catch and shame men who went in their. It made me realise that if we weren't able to get a handle on porn back then, when it was actual shops not the Internet, when feminism was united on the issue, when the images of extreme abuse weren't mainstream, how can we ever hope to now? How can we even begin to put the genie back in the bottle? And if we can't - if porn, even extreme violent porn, can't be stopped - then where do we go from here?

[littlbrowndog]

Yeah. Porn is not empowering

Terrible for that girl and well I can’t express my horror that dads brothers uncles watch this horrific porn and get a kick from this.

[QuentinWinters]

Pornhub are disgusting and like to act like they are "ethical". In their statement in the article above they even say that the violent porn they host is "protected by free speech".

I'm so sick of it, I asked Jess Philip's and Keir Starmer a question about it on the webchats and was ignored twice, it is clear that those in power are happy to leave these porn giants hosting and promoting content that harms women actively (by showing a rape) and passively (by suggesting that it is normal to be aroused by violence/degradation of women).

I can't take anyone seriously who says they are a feminist if they support these sites.

No doubt some porn apologists will be along to tell us how their right to wank is more important than girls rights not to be raped and have films of it shared on the internet.

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

Totally agree with you both. I accidentally posted this thread twice though so there's another one (same title) with some more replies. I can't figure out how to link to it from the app though.

[megletthesecond]

I read it earlier and was shocked. Properly shocked.
That poor girl.

[Balkinfly]

There definitely needs to be greater regulation around these sites and the making and distrubution of porn. Sites need to be accessed through strict tight controls. I think it should be banned from mainstream internet until all porn on sit e can be verified etc.

I also think porn should not be easily accessed via the internet.

[tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz]

I read this too, it's just horrific.

How long do we think we'll be waiting for porn fans and freedom of sexual expression types to pop along and tell us we're being unreasonable?

And despite that odd post on a thread a few weeks ago claiming something along the lines that women were Pornhubs biggest user group (total bollocks, FFS) I agree with littlebrowndog, it's men watching this, men who have sisters, mums, wives, girlfriends and daughters. They have blood on their hands.

[NotTerfNorCis]

all forms of sexual expression should be allowed

Even actual rape of minors? That's self-serving in the extreme. Somebody needs to step in.

[peachgreen]

Yes, I read this article too. Awful. I wish I knew what the answer is. I have a toddler and it terrifies me that she'll be exposed to this kind of material from such a young age, no matter what I try and do to protect her.

[Balkinfly]

TBH astounded that the site hasn't been shut down if this has been shown on their site. Why not?

[Thelnebriati]

I'm so disgusted with how much abuse people are prepared to tolerate and facilitate.

Everything that is happening now is happening in plain sight, and with the full knowledge of the people who are supposed to police it.

The people who support them even though they are clueless about the facts, and the people who turn a blind eye are complicit.
They will not get the type of society they expect. No doubt when it comes back to bite them, they will want to pass the blame on.

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

8 don't know who owns pornhub or whether it would be subject to any laws passed on the subject in Briton? I wish we could make it a crime to watch porn, or at the very least to watch porn which depicts abuse - even if it is consensual role play. Of course it won't stop men watching it, but it would deter many and send a message to women that they don't need to accept it. So often I see posts from women saying "my dp watches porn, which I have no problem with, but he does it 6 hours a day etc". And of course after a few pages of people saying "you don't have to be OK with it, it's OK to be shocked/sad/revolted" the op usually admits that actually she isn't happy about it after all. But of course all the apologists swarm in trying to say that watching porn is "healthy and natural" and that "shaming" men for it (or women, because WDIT, obvs) is the same as being anti masterbation in general. But if it was illegal, or some types of it were illegal, then it would give a lot of women permission to honour that instant jolt of disgust they feel when they discover a partners porn history. There'd be no "I know this is wrong but I need to act cool about it". But the rules around porn seem to be getting looser not tighter. And yes, I noticed that the Labour candidates managed to avoid the porn questions quite neatly!

[Balkinfly]

Pornography needs tighter controls, especially now we have the internet. It is a damaging part of society no question about it.

Just look at how that poor girl was treated, when she asked to take the video down. Complete bastards - did anyone go to prison for distributing that material? No? An absolute disgrace. I can hardly believe what I am reading.

[Goosefoot]

TBF about asking political candidates, I suspect many of them either don't realise what bad stuff is available, or have as little idea as any of us what to do about it. It makes it difficult to answer a question like that on a webchat.

One thought I had reading your post, ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings is that you mention when feminists were all of one mind. I am not sure that's what's going to do it, even if it was possible. Women who actively consider themselves feminists are a minority of women, often though not always on the left, and the fact is that even among those who use that label, they are divided.
On the other hand, there are quite a lot of women who don't consider themselves feminists who are seriously disturbed by this kind of porn and see the problems with porn in general. This group tends to be ignored or even denigrated in feminist circles because their opinions don't toe the line on what feminists consider acceptable, and those who associate with them are considered to have sold out to the right wing. And in many cases their views are very much straw-manned. But they are a significant number of women who have opinions on these things.

More than that though, we need to convince people, just everyone. And it's true, this stuff has sneaked in under the radar in part because it's something people do privately. Who knows who is watching what when no one is around? And the nature of it has been that it starts with more "normal" images and depictions of sex, and becomes more and more depraved as the user becomes desensitised, there is a real addictive quality too. And no one wants to talk about that or admit it.

This is where language about free speech and natural healthy sexual release, and sex work is dignified etc comes in - it allows people a framework to justify what they are viewing to themselves, and it also initially leads the to think it's benign.

There were times when people did not justify it to themselves in that way, as a general rule, porn was considered socially unacceptable and wrong. Individuals of course did all kinds of things, but the social consensus was much different than it is now. So it's possible, the question is, how could we get there.

I think the answer is that it's not something that can work just by picking away at one issue. When people believe things, it's part of a whole system of beliefs that largely fit together in a coherent way. So what are the larger sets of beliefs in our society that lead to a way of thinking that justifies porn? And what would be a set of beliefs that people might embrace that would lead them away from that?

[MoltenLasagne]

This is not just filmed rape, it is filmed rape of a minor which means anyone who had it on their phone could be charged with possession of child abuse images, and anyone sending it could be charged with distribution of CSA. How then is a hosting platform somehow exempt from this seeing as they are distributing CSA? Surely it should only take one proven case to at least force them to shut down until they put controls in place to prevent this happening again.

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

So what are the larger sets of beliefs in our society that lead to a way of thinking that justifies porn?

That women are objects or livestock and watching them be abused is OK.

And what would be a set of beliefs that people might embrace that would lead them away from that?

That women are human and watching them being abused is not OK.

[bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg]

It is filmed rape of a minor which means anyone who had it on their phone could be charged with possession of child abuse images, and anyone sending it could be charged with distribution of CSA. How then is a hosting platform somehow exempt from this seeing as they are distributing CSA?

Why isn't the Internet Watch Foundation blocking PornHub?

[Balkinfly]

Another element to it Goosefoot is that I have gone off men due to Pornography if that makes sense? It does men no favours at all and women who accept and think there is no problem with partners accessing porn on a regular basis are fooling themselves if they think it is harmless and has no implications to their relationship and to society as a whole.

I agree we need to tackle Pornography and its distribution from a different angle perhaps through one of respect and encouragement of closer relationships without the use of porn. Unfortunately I think we need to make it seen as unsavoury again.

It seems bizarre that we have a #metoo campaign but websites can keep rape footage up when the victim has asked for it to be removed do not face any prosecution.

[Goosefoot]

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg

How is that working for you, in terms of political traction?

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

Very very good question moltenlasagne!

[skql]

strangely they mentioned freedom of speech?

why that used one way?

religious people, parents, other pp just sitting down and being shouted
'silence' and minor's real rape film is 'freedom of speech?'

why that used one way: pro sex ,sex work, pro kink?

[Goosefoot]

I agree we need to tackle Pornography and its distribution from a different angle perhaps through one of respect and encouragement of closer relationships without the use of porn. Unfortunately I think we need to make it seen as unsavoury again.

Yeah, this is what I think too. It would be good to be able to address the technical angle, but that seems to be actually quite difficult. It does need to be seen as unsavoury in general.

But I think a real question there is - why the unfortunately? Why should that be a problem, to have it become something people look at as a little gross and creepy? I think a lot of people feel like it's kind of a rollback to a time when we were less open-minded, but is that true, really? Maybe we have let our brains fall out, so to speak?

I understand what you mean about men and women accepting it. My feeling is that they are two sides of the same coin, most men and women accept it for the same reason, they have been taught by their culture that it is ok and normal. It's difficult for people to go against the general flow of things. For the younger men and occasional woman that are real users, it's difficult because they have learned to manage their sex lives in this way. Some of them are actually addicts and don't really know how to go without sexual gratification whenever they want it, in some cases how to have a relationship with a real person. It becomes an emotional crutch for some. Those aren't easy things to change when you have grown up in an environment that offers porn at will.

[Balkinfly]

But I think a real question there is - why the unfortunately? Why should that be a problem, to have it become something people look at as a little gross and creepy? I think a lot of people feel like it's kind of a rollback to a time when we were less open-minded, but is that true, really? Maybe we have let our brains fall out, so to speak?

Totally agree. I think the sexual revolution although good in some respects had the knock on effect that any restrictions to sexual exploration was in the realm of Mary Whitehouse which is of course absurd.

I think Pornography has become entangled in this liberation, when, it should have been kept entirely separate.

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

Goosefoot you make a good point. I guess by "all of one mind I meant" all pulling in the same direction". Yes lots of women who don't ID as feminists oppose porn, but generally I don't think they're out their actively campaigning about it like feminists are. So if the number of women who are engaging in activism is already tiny, then it become almost impossible when you think that a large number of those women are actively campaigning in favour of the problem!

But I agree, its the Overton window that needs shifting. And sadly I don't think there's much success to be had from appealing to men's humanity. A significant number of them don't see us as human. I'm not sure they ever will.

But if more women vocally opposed porn at every level of society then that could help. If mothers talked about it with their sons, if women rejected men who use porn as partners etc.

But like you say, ideas about porn exist as part of a wider framework of beliefs. Number 1, I would say, is the idea that some men have to use porn or they will cheat, become angry, commit rape, or suffer medically in some way. The idea that it's a physical need rather than a choice seems quite wide spread. I've also read posts where people say their partner justifies it as "not seeing them as real people" as if theyre watching a fiction show and not actual real women. When I've talked to my own partner about it he's come out with stuff about men being "more visual" and therefore other forms of stimulation (like erotic fiction) don't have the same effect. I think the narrative of "choice" and "consent" play a big part too, as people need to hang on to the belief that the women are willing participants. As with prostitution, a lot of people aren't really on board with the idea that money =/= consent.

I think ultimately though these are all just rationalisation. The core of the problem is that men don't care if the images they watch are rape or not. They want to watch porn, whatever kind of porn they fancy, and they don't really give a shit about anything beyond that. The job of the women in their lives then becomes to construct a narrative around the man that still paints him as a good person. If they don't do that then they have to accept that the person they love is despicable. That's our society. Men do what they want, and women come up with 101 reasons why it's OK, and their OK with it, and no harm was done.

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

Yeh the "free speech" angle is obscene. It's a classic example of men twisting things meant to protect women as weapons against them. "oh you want free speech? Well then that extends to these images of abuse which perpetuates violence against women. Oh you dont like free speech anymore? Then you can't have it either for speaking up for women's rights". It's like the men who say "if you want equality, that means I get to punch you now".