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It's 2020 folks. 2020!

(137 Posts)
aliasundercover Wed 05-Feb-20 09:47:20

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/04/i-am-not-a-slapper-labour-mp-tracy-brabin-defends-her-commons-attire

The pic in the story is very disappointing. I thought she was going to be wearing a basque or something

OP’s posts: |
Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 10:29:17

.....but that is really not a very professional way to dress. Totally inappropriate for the House Of Commons, or indeed any professional situation.

I wonder what was going on in her mind to dress in such a way? You do see many older women clinging to outworn versions of how they used to dress when younger....and inevitably ends up being deeply unflattering.

LouHotel Wed 05-Feb-20 10:32:56

I think its very flattering on her, my mum is in her 60s and could equally pull that off.

It’s not professional attire but the name calling was deeply seeped in sexism.

Myimaginarycathasfleas Wed 05-Feb-20 10:36:16

She may not be any of the things she described in her tweet but unfortunately that is what she looked like. Very inappropriate wear if she expected to be taken seriously.

Imagine the reaction if a male MP decided to turn up to the HoC in shorts. It's not a feminist issue, it's a self-respect one.

aliasundercover Wed 05-Feb-20 10:43:45

She may not be any of the things she described in her tweet but unfortunately that is what she looked like

You're agreeing she looks like she's: "Just been banged over a wheelie bin"?

OP’s posts: |
FrogsFrogs Wed 05-Feb-20 10:44:42

Myimaginary you think she looks like she's just been 'banged over a wheelie bin'?

Ok that's totally not where my mind would go when I see a bit of a woman's shoulder.

Personally I think it's not really appropriate for work

But the insults leveled at her are highly misogynistic

And apparently supported by at least one woman on here

The propensity of men (and women sometimes) to use sexualised insults about women and girls is grim, calling schoolgirls sluts etc if they have a short skirt on. Of course it's a feminist issue.

Do men get told they look like they've just been banged over a wheelie bin when they wear shorts. Erm that would be a no. And lots of people would find it shocking if someone did suggest that.

Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 10:47:39

Imagine the reaction if a male MP decided to turn up to the HoC in shorts. It's not a feminist issue, it's a self-respect one

I think the issue is that many women cling to versions of themselves which rely on being seen as sexy.......which is an easy thing to slip into for a woman who has always been considered attractive.You see quite elderly women, too, tottering around in high heels - which are anything but flattering.....not that high heels are a great look on anyone in my opinion. But when you are younger you can get away with such experimentation.

Having so much bare flesh on show in such a setting would be a distraction from the role whatever your age........and more suitable for a night out. Also sends out mixed messages about your intention.

That she is the new shadow women's & equalities minister seems to suggest that she may not have a particularly radical view of what feminism is about...maybe more on the non-questioning liberal side of things...do what you want, wear what you like sort of thing......

Findumdum1 Wed 05-Feb-20 10:48:40

I have to say i don't really think this is a feminist issue, though of course the name calling was predictably crass. I think modern professional attire suitable for work has of course evolved and become more smart casual but she has taken it a tad too far. I would wear a t shirt to work of no meetings but I wouldn't wear an off the shoulder top. I think it looked massively out of place in the HOC and on tv. Hypocrisy when you see the state of people on Love Island etc but that was not 2020 work attire.

Spidey66 Wed 05-Feb-20 10:48:42

I don't have a problem with the dress, but do feel it's inappropriate for working in the House of Commons. It would be fine if she worked in a clothes shop, or an informal office etc.

I don't agree on calling her sexist terms though.

ScipioAfricanus Wed 05-Feb-20 10:49:51

I agree that they have approached the issue in a sexist manner, and she wouldn’t have got so much sexually-themed name calling if she were a man wearing a pair of shorts (trying to think of gendered clothing which would seem equally casual or inappropriate to me).

I don’t understand why she would wear this, though. And I think my dislike of it is not misogynistic or anti-feminist. I think it looks unprofessional, which is sort of to do with the scruffy and skin-baring nature of it. Maybe at its very core there’s something sexist about that. It’s also harder for men to look unprofessional because there are such strict rules to their professional clothing (suits).

SapphosRock Wed 05-Feb-20 10:50:36

Jacob Rees-Mogg got plenty of flack for that reclining pose so no reason why she shouldn't be pulled up on her choice of top. I wouldn't be allowed to wear that top to work and neither would a man. Unsuitable for the House of Commons.

The comments are sexist though.

Findumdum1 Wed 05-Feb-20 10:50:58

I dont really think its to do with her age either. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I saw her wearing that in a bar or restaurant (which yes us ancient old middle aged crones are still allowed to go to!)

Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 10:54:16

It’s not professional attire but the name calling was deeply seeped in sexism

Yes, but if you will dress in clothing that is specifically designed to reveal your female shape..then you can probably expect responses which are sexist......If you wear plunging necklines and push-up bras do you really expect people not to notice or comment?

Obviously there is no way disguising the shape of the body, outside of wearing voluminous garments..not that should we have to attempt to. But flaunting oneself in ways which are considered appropriate for attracting sexual interest is not the way to proceed, surely, if you don't want that kind of attention.

Some women do seem unconscious, or oblivious, of the signals that wearing 'sexualised' clothing sends out.

Findumdum1 Wed 05-Feb-20 10:57:51

are you a man?

I don't agree with that at all..If she was wearing that in a bar I wouldn't expect anyone to see that as an excuse to sexually harass her. I thought we'd moved on from "she was asking for it because she had a short skirt on" jeez.

SapphosRock Wed 05-Feb-20 11:00:02

* Yes, but if you will dress in clothing that is specifically designed to reveal your female shape..then you can probably expect responses which are sexist...*

No no no no. Outside of work women deserve to wear whatever the fuck they want without expecting sexist responses to their choice of clothing.

At work they can be expected to be told to dress professionally, perfectly possible without being sexist.

Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 11:04:26

No no no no. Outside of work women deserve to wear whatever the fuck they want without expecting sexist responses to their choice of clothing

That is just naive......if you wear clothing which is deemed, in your culture, to be sexy...then that is the response you are going to receive.

Clothing is about self expression, but also about social expectation and messaging. That is the big problem for me in the way that women are brought up to present themselves as primarily, sex objects - looking to attract admiring or lustful glances. women valuing themselves largely as being seen as sexually alluring or attractive.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Wed 05-Feb-20 11:05:10

Saying "that's not professional clothing" is fine. The rest of it is just sexism. If she was in a more casual environment it would be fine, and none of anyone else's business.

Throwing in some ageism too really isn't helping.

HandsOffMyLangCleg Wed 05-Feb-20 11:05:35

I want to talk about professional attire.

When Philip Bunce scooped an FT Woman of the award and was subsequently praised for being stunning and brave, not one of these arseholes commented on his attire - a quick scan of images shows a range of attire that would be deemed unsuitable.

Same old slut shaming against women by men.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Wed 05-Feb-20 11:06:57

I have never seen a woman dressed like Bunce in the workplace. Because that's not professional attire. If Bunce was female it wouldn't be allowed in an office, especially not in such a conservative industry.

Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 11:07:37

Another problem is that many young girls are unaware that the clothing they wear is seen as at all sexually provocative. They just think they look pretty - because that is the general look amongst young women - presented in magazines etc

You can still dress stylishly, with confidence and personality, without wearing push-up bras and shorts so small your bum cheeks are on show.

Findumdum1 Wed 05-Feb-20 11:09:16

Damn good point about Bunce. No woman would ever dress like that at work.

Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 11:09:53

are you a man

Don't be daft! Be conscious.

Myimaginarycathasfleas Wed 05-Feb-20 11:11:36

* Myimaginary you think she looks like she's just been 'banged over a wheelie bin'?*

Honestly?

I think it's a funny comment, but yes, in one of the photos I've seen, she does a bit!

Beamur Wed 05-Feb-20 11:12:26

Women judging other women for their clothing choices...
Now, that's really not a good look.

Justhadathought Wed 05-Feb-20 11:13:54

I don't agree with that at all..If she was wearing that in a bar I wouldn't expect anyone to see that as an excuse to sexually harass her

No, but sexualised comments might well be expected, or certainly glances and wandering eyes..... Much of the night-life scene is a bit of a meat market after all....with singles out to attract a mate, or to have their appeal validated.

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