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Trans women in womens toilet

(265 Posts)
BeCoolYolanda Sun 19-Jan-20 01:56:30

I was out with friends tonight for a friends birthday. While in the queue for the toilet in the womens bathroom a transwomen came in. She was chatting to people in the queue and the lady in front of me asked if she were a man or a woman as she wasnt comfortable with a male being in the female toilets.

With that all hell all hell broke loose, the transwomen became very aggressive shouting and pointing in the womens face. A lot of women in the queue also turned on the woman, saying how dare she ask that etc. The woman ended up locking herself in the toilet as she felt intimidated.

Eventually the bouncers were called and they came in to the toilet and dragged the woman who asked the question out forcefully by the arm. Should this be happening? All a women did was question if it was a male or female that was using a female space, maybe she could have worded it less bluntly but surely the sentiment is still the same.

OP’s posts: |
Angryresister Sun 19-Jan-20 02:47:03

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OvenGlovesWillTearUsApart Sun 19-Jan-20 02:50:11

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AutumnRose1 Sun 19-Jan-20 02:57:21

No it shouldn’t be happening

Complain to the venue.

BeCoolYolanda Sun 19-Jan-20 03:02:09

Exactly. I feel like some people are that frightened of seeming homophobic or transphobic that they are allowing, even welcoming this. Its scary.

OP’s posts: |
AutumnRose1 Sun 19-Jan-20 03:04:25

OP have you written to your local MP about this issue generally?

BeCoolYolanda Sun 19-Jan-20 03:10:01

No I havent because this happened tonight, I have read a lot about it but its the first time I have seen something like this first hand. Its opened my eyes and I will contact the venue tomorrow. To be honest I felt imitidated myself, the woman who asked the question was very much 'in the wrong' according to most people there.

OP’s posts: |
ThinEndoftheWedge Sun 19-Jan-20 09:10:42

Whilst I never would have been aggressive, I think a number of years ago my reaction may have been similar to the women in the queue who rounded on the questioner.

I think much of society think the issue - if they know about it at all - think it is about politeness and being progressive, when it is not.

Many have not yet considered / imagined the full ramifications to the erasure of women’s rights, ability to speak, sport, spaces, ability to believe and discuss science, safeguarding and the corruption of statistics to understand the structure of society and guide resources.

Self ID
- girls legally forced to share toilet provision with grown men
- girls legally forced to undress in front of grown men in communal changing rooms
- Female prisoners forced to share cells/ showers with rapists.
- Statistics that now show women can rape - when only men can rape - needs a penis

I can’t imagine the women in the queue would actually agree with the above if they were aware. If they do - that would be awful.

We need to use every opportunity to educate and inform women and men.

Bouncers - no excuse

ThinEndoftheWedge Sun 19-Jan-20 09:27:23

I should add - this is a perfect example of the erasure of woman’s right to free speech and safe space in action - divide and rule within women clearly an effective policy.

Woman removed from woman space due to inclusion of man in woman’s space.

I would complain to the venue, your MP and mention it to the press.

Chocolatemice Sun 19-Jan-20 09:34:03

Bloody hell. That is terrifying. People think my fear of sharing toilets is a bit full on. This is why it matters. We had separate toilets for a reason.

MissingMySleep Sun 19-Jan-20 09:54:24

How terrifying

Whoremione Sun 19-Jan-20 10:04:02

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EmpressLesbianInChair Sun 19-Jan-20 10:06:47

Legally in the UK, rape involves the rapist’s penis, so is limited to males. Anything else is sexual assault.

And the percentage of biological women who commit sexual assault is tiny.

NeedAnExpert Sun 19-Jan-20 10:07:05

The legal definition of rape is “penetration with a penis”. So yes, only men can rape.

A woman charged with penetrating someone or sleeping with an underage boy would be guilty of sexual assault.

SameOldHorrorStory Sun 19-Jan-20 10:07:08

By law only a penis can rape

fastliving Sun 19-Jan-20 10:10:39

That is such a horrible situation, women being silenced and attacked for trying to voice a concern.

AnyOldPrion Sun 19-Jan-20 10:13:02

come on, do you really think that only adult men can commit rape?

In the U.K., yes, due to the technicality of the law which specifies penetration with a penis.

The point about recorded cases of “women” having committed rape is that it is a clear signifier that men are committing crimes that are being recorded as “women’s crimes” and included in women’s statistics. Which means we no longer have clear information on crime sex statistics.

As for the transwoman in the toilets, it demonstrates that women have been very well schooled into accepting men are very much allowed to be aggressive when women challenge them on certain issues, this being one of them.

AllStar14 Sun 19-Jan-20 10:14:15

All rapists are men. Women can sexually assault but cannot rape.

Mockers2020Vision Sun 19-Jan-20 10:17:25

A woman can be legally guilty of the crime of rape if she assists a rapist with a common purpose.

Tubbytwo Sun 19-Jan-20 10:17:37

I hope this incident will be properly logged somewhere? Is there a place to record the intimidation of natal born women and girls (how I hate having to write that 🤬) in public lavatories?

Gronky Sun 19-Jan-20 10:22:51

Why are some women so keen to support males and not other women?

I imagine they view transwomen as women.

Michelleoftheresistance Sun 19-Jan-20 10:24:11

This is the reality of it.

Males can enter any female space at will, and at all times have the freedom of two spaces they can choose between.

Some females will be fine with it, and prioritise the protection and nurture of those males, without being able to reflect on what this says.

Other females, who cannot tolerate this, will be bullied, harassed and ridiculed if they try to protest, and effectively a significant percentage of the female population will stop being able to enter or use female spaces. Meaning access to no spaces at all, to provide some males with freedom of choice.

From those with the guts to acknowledge this, this is regarded as a fair punishment to those females for failing to properly prioritise and serve the males involved. Politicians largely close their eyes to this bit.

Third spaces - you get wails and howls about lower class facilities and feeling othered. Please for the love of God, give third spaces then to those excluded females who will have nothing at all otherwise. Call it whatever you want. I don't honestly care if you call it the die in a fire/piece of shit space. Just give me somewhere I can pee or change.

AnyOldPrion Sun 19-Jan-20 10:25:28

I imagine they view transwomen as women.

Bet every single one of them could tell this was a male and reacted exactly the same as they would faced with any other intimidating male.

GColdtimer Sun 19-Jan-20 10:25:31

That poor woman. And yes that person rather proved the point. We really need to make women more aware of their rights here, via Schedule 3, section 27, subsection 6 equality act:

"(6) The condition is that—

(a) the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and

(b) the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex."

Here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7/crossheading/singlesex-services

Michelleoftheresistance Sun 19-Jan-20 10:25:42

And it goes without saying: many of those excluded females will be excluded because of trauma, disability, race, culture and faith.

So all the lecturing on 'intersectionality' was just a lot of hot air, wasn't it?

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