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Sexism, racism and my opinion of Donald Trump

(31 Posts)
AutumnRose1 Sun 12-Jan-20 11:49:18

I've long said that I found old fashioned racism easier to deal with - say from the 80s. It was more like being questioned for the colour of your skin and things people associated with culture. But it seems to me, you answered the questions, people felt assured I wasn't "different", and then moved on and accepted me as English. Now it's "you are a minority, so you SHOULD think this way".

Recently I'm thinking the old fashioned sexism, much as I hate it, was easier to deal with that the kind of misogyny masquerading as something else.

And suddenly I am finding myself understanding why people voted for Trump. Initially I was horrified. But if it's really the case that TW can access women's domestic violence centres, that it's accepted widely that TWAW, that I am a TERF for worrying about mixed sex wards, that Elizabeth Warren and other politicians are so happy and excited about children having medical treatment based on sex stereotypes...

I think I now prefer old fashioned sexism too. It's so fucking depressing. How did we get here? Where "grab her by the pussy" is a better option than anything else?

and also I'm wondering...has anyone else felt this way about Trump and America? I used to spend a bit of time over there for work (c 20 years ago). Sounds like another planet from what I hear now.

SameOldHorrorStory Sun 12-Jan-20 12:27:24

20 years ago, Twitter didn’t exist and this has largely shaped the way stories are reported over the last decade. Before Twitter, a reader wrote in to the media and expressed disgust and the media reported on it as ‘one viewers disgust’. Now, people express their disgust on Twitter and the media reports on it and presents it as ‘viewers are disgusted’.

It’s not a different planet, we’re just playing by different rules. Unless you think that people have, for some reason, completely changed in the last 20 years?

AutumnRose1 Sun 12-Jan-20 12:47:29

"Unless you think that people have, for some reason, completely changed in the last 20 years?"

yes, I do think they have changed. Just as people do change over time.

I think the internet has given traction to a lot of ideas that wouldn't have had a wider audience than three academics chatting in a pub, sure.

mummmy2017 Sun 12-Jan-20 12:51:26

Trump got in for the same reason as Boris.
The poor and disappointed have someone to vote for.

AutumnRose1 Sun 12-Jan-20 12:59:02

mummy yes, I see that now.

mummmy2017 Sun 12-Jan-20 13:15:44

What the UK new is not reporting is that there is an upturn in employment for the places with mass unemployment, Trump kept his word and has help many gain jobs and help.
There is a backlash against rich families who have never worked running things in the USA, and how Hilary got off, but Trump is being chased.
He wants to run at a profit and promote the country and this is hitting a cord in many people, but the Media are not happy about this.

AutumnRose1 Sun 12-Jan-20 13:21:16

That’s interesting

I feel like coverage I saw was skewed to say that the Democrats were keen to have more things publicly funded....but not a peep about them dismantling women’s rights.

With certain subjects taboo, I now see why some women I’ve talked to thought Trump was a better option. But I also see why they didn’t feel able to explain why, especially in a woke workplace.

SenecaFalls Sun 12-Jan-20 13:27:16

But if it's really the case that TW can access women's domestic violence centres

Most domestic violence agencies in the US serve all victims of domestic violence and have for a long time. I doubt this particular issue has any impact on how someone in the US votes.

mummmy2017 Sun 12-Jan-20 13:31:38

Most of the US is rural, think old fashioned, looks like UK 20 years ago.
They are not super woke.
A bit like the big town mentality is what the media projects, but far more are like the Walton's, if they had advanced to 1990.
People are just getting by and if a transwoman walked into a loo it would be talked about for months, as not the norm.
Same sex marriage is still banned in some states.

SenecaFalls Sun 12-Jan-20 14:05:17

Same sex marriage is still banned in some states.

No, it's not. Same sex marriage is legal in the entire US.

Mockers2020Vision Sun 12-Jan-20 14:10:55

Middle-America becoming most vexious on this subject at the moment:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50592811

SenecaFalls Sun 12-Jan-20 14:15:05

Most of the US is rural

Only 20% of the US population live in rural areas.

Mockers2020Vision Sun 12-Jan-20 14:18:05

Increasingly urban and brown.

Which scares some folks.

AutumnRose1 Sun 12-Jan-20 14:44:12

Seneca oh okay.

I thought I read something about how Hillary is realising the TWAW might have cost her some votes.

BickerinBrattle Sun 12-Jan-20 15:18:03

Hillary lost because Democrats in the Rust Belt who’d turned out to vote in 2008 and 2013 for Obama did not turn out to vote for her.

I think her support of NAFTA was probably salient there, as NAFTA is a major factor in why those states are now called the Rust Belt.

To people who were hurting, she offered more of the same.

Trump campaigned on renegotiating NAFTA, reindustrializing the Rust Belt, bringing the troops home, and ending illegal immigration. There was certainly doubt as to his ability to do any of those things; there was definitely America First white nationalism in play.

But he promised jobs in a way that Hillary couldn’t and didn’t, with any credibility, in those regions desperate for jobs. And so she lost in the states she needed to win in order to win in the Electoral College.

BlackForestCake Sun 12-Jan-20 15:23:44

I always wonder how much credibility the electoral college has now. When I was at school we were taught that the electoral college existed just in case the electorate voted for some charlatan who was completely unsuitable to be president.

Mockers2020Vision Sun 12-Jan-20 15:27:45

The original reason for the electoral college was practical. The logistics of collecting and counting all those votes in a time of horses and buggies and no proper roads were prohibitive.

RadicalFern Sun 12-Jan-20 16:27:36

The electoral college also makes sure that the smaller or less populous states are not simply disregarded

Jeeperscreepers69 Sun 12-Jan-20 17:49:09

Isnt the rust belt called so because its where the loggers and factories where? If im we rong then why rust belt?

Mockers2020Vision Sun 12-Jan-20 20:23:24

"Rust Belt" is the bit where heavy industry (coal & steel) has shut down leaving a lot of rusting plant behind.

See Billy Joel's "Allentown" (from when he was still good.)

Goosefoot Sun 12-Jan-20 22:07:14

and also I'm wondering...has anyone else felt this way about Trump and America? I used to spend a bit of time over there for work (c 20 years ago). Sounds like another planet from what I hear now.

I have had a lot of sympathy for many Trump voters, even though I find him really quite horrific in almost every way. And he's utterly incompetent.

But it is very similar to the recent vote in the UK. For years the Democrats have been taking for granted their traditional, socially conservative politically left(ish) supporters, and pursued policies that ignored them and were bad for them, as well as for the precarious members of the middle classes. They assumed they would vote for them, and they didn't. They assumed non-whites would vote for them as well, and yet many Hispanics voted for Trump (30% if I recall correctly) and even many black voters simple refrained from voting.

I agree that there seemed something more straightforward about the "old" kind of racism and sexism. I think this is because under the current view, race is not something to overcome, an idea invented to justify racism (which is historically the case)but it's assumed as an essentialist category. Even as a dream, a race-blind society is impossible in that scenario. Even a person who sees you just for yourself will still always think of you in terms of that category. Kind of depressing really.

I post at times on an American forum but I mostly just can't now. The politics is just so naive. I's depressing too.

AutumnRose1 Sun 12-Jan-20 22:10:42

Goose “ I agree that there seemed something more straightforward about the "old" kind of racism and sexism. I think this is because under the current view, race is not something to overcome, an idea invented to justify racism (which is historically the case)but it's assumed as an essentialist category. Even as a dream, a race-blind society is impossible in that scenario. Even a person who sees you just for yourself will still always think of you in terms of that category. Kind of depressing really.”

You put that so much better than I did! That’s also what I was thinking in terms of minorities voting for Trump. Did it feel like he was the best hope of getting away from identity politics?

I can’t remember where you are Goose - I was asking on another thread because of weird things you have to say before meetings?

NotBadConsidering Sun 12-Jan-20 22:13:59

Hillary lost because Democrats in the Rust Belt who’d turned out to vote in 2008 and 2013 for Obama did not turn out to vote for her

Not exactly. It was only really Michigan and Florida.

She lost Florida by 100,000 votes. If just over half had voted the other way she’d have won Florida.

She lost Michigan by 10,000. If just over half had voted the other way she’d have won Michigan.

If she’d won Michigan and Florida she’d have won the electoral college and hence be President. It was only 60,000 people in two states who needed to be persuaded.

Goosefoot Mon 13-Jan-20 03:07:51

I can’t remember where you are Goose - I was asking on another thread because of weird things you have to say before meetings?

I'm in Canada. Where we have our own very weird political landscape.

American progressives at the moment seem only able to see things in terms of Trump-voter = Completely morally corrupt and stupid. More so even than the Remainer/Brexiter divide. Any sort of discussion of policies on their own merits, why protectionism might be appealing for example, is just impossible.

Last year I read a really interesting book on identity politics that has helped me organise my thinking about it significantly, it's called On Identity by Amin Maalouf. I didn't agree with all of his conclusions but it offered a lot of insight into its emergence in the US. There was quite a bit about the American civil rights movement which I wasn't really familiar with, and he drew some interesting parallels with black nationalism. It's worth reading if you can get hold of it, I had to use interlibrary loan.

Goosefoot Mon 13-Jan-20 03:11:53

NotBadConsidering

And to think she really didn't even bother to campaign in Michigan.

I can't help wondering though, if she had been elected, would things be better? In an immediate way, perhaps. But she would undoubtably continue all the policy approaches that have brought the US to where it is now and driven more and more voters to a place where they would vote for someone like Trump.

I hoped for a while that maybe this would be enough of a shock to create some change or political will, not so much in the voters as in the political apparatus. But looking now at the nominations race for the Democrats I am not hopeful.

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