Finland

[littlebillie]

Finland’s government is led by women 🇫🇮✌️

Sanna Marin, 34, Prime Minister

Katri Kulmuni, 32, Minister of Economic Affairs

Maria Ohisalo, 34, Minister of the Interior

Li Andersson, 32, Minister of Education

Anna-Maja Henriksson, 55, Minister of Justice

[MoodLighting]

Cool!

[thatdamnwoman]

Excellent. And so young, too. What's the Finnish position on identity politics/ transgender issues?

[nauticant]

In my experience very woke with gender critical people knowing to keep their traps shut.

[Goosefoot]

And so young, too.

I'm starting to be a bigger fan of the wisdom of elders, myself.

[Adenosine]

It was previously very hardline on changing gender but now Amnesty has got involved and there are moves afoot.

[PhoenixBuchanan]

I'm in my 30s and the thing that leapt out at me (and not in a good way) was the fact that 4 out of 5 of them are in their early 30s

Doesn't experience count for anything anymore?

[AutumnRose1]

No, I think that being over 40 is frowned upon now.

I haven’t looked them up by my first thought was to wonder if they are women.

[AutumnRose1]

*but

[MockersFactCheckMN]

What's the Finnish position on identity on transgender issues?

Naked in the sauna reaching for the birch twigs?

[SomeVelvetMorning]

In law - very strict. Requires sterilisation to get change of gender recognised in law.

I have no idea what it is like on a day to day social basis.

[ahumanfemale]

I was under the impression that it's very, very woke, whatever the actual laws are.

I am not sure if their saunas are mixed sex. I do wonder about places like The Netherlands where saunas are naked and mixed sex how that works for trans people and being gender critical.

[MrGHardy]

Yea, not liking this at all. What is experience for?

[AutumnRose1]

“ What is experience for?”

Charging lots to give talks later. Not a criticism, I’d do the same if I had the ability and guts.

[SomeVelvetMorning]

The Netherlands where saunas are naked and mixed sex how that works for trans people and being gender critical

Here's some thoughts on it.

I don't understand your point in relation to being "gender critical". If Dutch saunas are fully mixed the point is irrelevant surely?

One of the writers linked below found it a very positive experience (because basically very few people look good naked)

Personally I have as little desire to be naked in a mixed sex sauna as I would be in a female only one.

inktank.fi/never-in-the-netherlands-7-reasons-finns-should-never-visit-a-dutch-sauna/

dutchreview.com/culture/dutchness/sauna-in-the-netherlands-what-going-to-a-naked-sauna-is-really-like/

www.maitravelsite.com/naked-in-helsinki-baring-it-all-in-a-public-sauna/

[CharlieParley]

Embraced gender-neutral policy making to the max. Now no single women-only refuge left in the entire country as they outlawed single-sex provision.

You see, Finnish policy makers seem to believe that as they have adopted lots of laws to ensure women's equality, the issue is totally sorted and there is now no need to specifically provide anything on a for-women-only basis.

Of course, as long as you don't teach children about VAWG and its root causes and as long as you don't address the particular elements of male socialization that contribute to VAWG, you don't really tackle the issue head-on. Their rates of VAWG are estimated to be in line with the rest of Europe but they haven't bothered to collect accurate data.

Much as the Fins might like that to be the case, violence against women and girls doesn't disappear when you don't measure it.

Shelter provision in Finland seems to apply a gender-neutral approach, accommodating both male victims and perpetrators. This raises questions of the safety as well as the empowerment of women victims of violence. In order to ensure recognition of the gendered nature of violence against women, women-only shelters should be provided. Male victims should be accommodated in separate facilities.

Verdict and recommendation by the VAWG experts investigating whether signatories to the Istanbul convention are implementing its policies (quote from their first base line report on Finland). Their polite tone belies the anger and outrage they reportedly felt but couldn't put in the report.

FYI, the Istanbul convention is an international women's rights treaty specifically designed to provide a strong legal framework complete with relevant policies and minimum standards to tackle violence against women and girls and to provide for survivors. (Signed but not yet ratified by UK, so unlike Finland, UK is not bound by its provisions.)

[CharlieParley]

Should have added in the VAWG sector after

"the issue is totally sorted and there is now no need to specifically provide anything on a for-women-only basis"

The whole report picks up on and criticises gender-neutral policy making in this area as wrong.

[Natsku]

There are women-only shelters in Finland but they are aimed at immigrant women rather than natives (run by the multicultural women's association)

Young people especially and people in the cities seem to very woke demanding self-ID and suchlike (sex is indicated in our social security numbers so self-ID doesn't work for things like blood donation thankfully, or anything that requires identification which is pretty much everything here) but outside of the cities no one seems to talk about it or be interested in it, at least in my area. Saunas are strictly single sex unless they are ones where you wear swimming costumes, I am pretty certain the older women at least would raise hell if a male tried to enter the female sauna.

I doubt the government will last long though, the prime minister stepped down to narrowly avoid a vote of no confidence and I doubt that risk will stay too far away.