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Blaming women for men's suicide

(90 Posts)
Gingerkittykat Sun 01-Dec-19 16:35:03

Ex blamed for causing mean's suicide.

I'm so angry at this article, and not just because I am arguing with a local MRA about it. The man was obviously in a bad place and let down badly by mental health services but lets blame the woman because that is easier.

Fraggling Wed 04-Dec-19 08:36:12

Yes there are press standards which women's groups have got changed over the years in various ways.

Eg when women who were prostitutes were murdered, when I was young, that was how they were described. Not woman murdered, not a name, but prostitute murdered.

That has changed after work by women's groups, to get these women humanised, treated with more respect.

The idea that these things can't be changed is a gross lie and I wonder why anyone would come onto a feminism board and tell women not to bother trying to make things better.

Coyoacan Wed 04-Dec-19 14:22:10

As I say, I think this breaks the rules about how the media cover suicide to avoid copycat suicides

PlanDeRaccordement Wed 04-Dec-19 15:41:38

It’s not a “gross lie” to be realistic about how little power and influence a consumer of a free product has.
In addition, if the way the media handled this one case was against journalistic standards, then it is up to the woman or her family to file a suit for defamation or misuse of private information against the media outlet(s).
But even being sued for damages hasn’t stopped the media from being sensationalist. They see paying off the odd settlement as a cost of doing business.
No one is immune. Even Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have a law suit against several news outlets for negative coverage with racial undertones.

XXMansplainShieldActive Wed 04-Dec-19 15:45:45

Be defeatist all you want but lay off other women trying to make a difference. Maybe even thank them?

PlanDeRaccordement Wed 04-Dec-19 15:46:35

Oh, and Fraggling
Your story about women not being called prostitutes in the press anymore is a nice one. But today the U.K. daily mail has this headline for an article:
“Mother of prostitute, 23, who killed her toddler daughters brands her a 'monster' and reveals she knew she'd murder them as 'they got in the way of her escort work' before selling their dresses and pyjamas on FACEBOOK”

PlanDeRaccordement Wed 04-Dec-19 15:58:45

XX- I see it is a crime to be a realist which is not defeatist by the way. Must we all be an optimistic Don Quixote here?
Strange, on any other feminist thread it is acceptable to recognise the reality of the lack of women’s power within a patriarchal system, but apparently not on this thread.

FWRLurker Wed 04-Dec-19 16:14:13

Plan you’re In essence telling women they shouldn’t be mad about blatant misogyny in the press and should just let it go and stop making such a fuss.


PlanDeRaccordement Wed 04-Dec-19 16:23:55

No I’m not. I’m disagreeing with those who say you can never hold a person responsible for another person’s suicide. The misogyny is in holding this belief that a person can never ever drive another person to kill them self because if that were true, then you’d have to release Nicolas Allen from his ten year prison sentence:

He was jailed in 2017 for 10 years for the manslaughter of his ex-girlfriend after she killed herself as a "direct result" of his controlling behaviour. Nicholas Allen was jailed after what is thought to be the first UK manslaughter case brought in such circumstances. Allen, 47, sent Justene Reece abusive voicemails, texts and Facebook messages and stalked her, the trial heard. Ms Reece, who was 46, hanged herself in February and left a note saying "I've run out of fight." A consultant psychiatrist who reviewed all the evidence and medical records said she had been in a "substantially abnormal" mental state, suffering from depression, panic attacks and feelings of hopelessness.

We all know more men abuse and control women than the other way around. By trying to protect the few abusive women, we let down the many many more women who are victims of abusive men. 3 die every week. THAT is misogyny in my opinion.

allmywhat Wed 04-Dec-19 16:43:48


Thanks for the inspiration. I have complained to IPSO too.

I complained on the grounds of Accuracy - that headline is clearly not supported by the facts.

I also complained on the grounds of Reporting Suicide - I'm less sure about that one, it seems limited to not describing weapons used. But the aim of that clause is to prevent further suicides inspired by the article. If coercive controllers who weaponise suicide against their victims see that article, it will affirm to them that their tactics are likely to work and that their ex will be blamed if they commit suicide.

My first IPSO complaint and I don't know how they usually think so perhaps it will be dismissed out of hand. But I hope others will complain too. That reporting is horrific.

Fraggling Wed 04-Dec-19 16:47:00

'In addition, if the way the media handled this one case was against journalistic standards, then it is up to the woman or her family to file a suit for defamation or misuse of private information against the media outlet(s).'

None of your business
Keep your nose out
Nothing you can do
Don't bother

On fwr of all places.

Women, accept the world, don't bother trying to change it for the better for women (or anyone else? Or just women?).

No thanks.

FWRLurker Wed 04-Dec-19 19:44:06

we let down the many many more women who are victims of abusive men. 3 die every week. THAT is misogyny in my opinion.

Many women stay because their abusive partners threaten suicide. It’s incredibly common. In my opinion The type of article like the one in the OP that blames women for what men choose to do is part of what leads to this. “Oh I Can’t leave him or I’ll be blamed for his suicide / his ex or family will think it’s my fault”.

There’s a reason that the kind of case you’re talking about is rare and should remain rare. I would personally prefer that abuser were charged with Every single count of physical abuse / battery / torture he’s guilty of. Should be hundreds or dozens of events and ought to be enough to lock him up for decades without the manslaughter charge.

Sadly we usually charge men with 1 count of domestic battery for years of torture. Let’s change that first.

PlanDeRaccordement Thu 05-Dec-19 09:11:00

I may be vindictive but while I 100% agree with you that abusive men should be charged with multiple counts of battery, assault, rape, all the torture they did, I still think that if they drove a woman to suicide they should also be charged with manslaughter as well. A life has not only been ruined but taken. There should be justice.

Fortunately, charging people who drive others to suicide with manslaughter has already changed. It is already set in legal precedent.

I think charging for multiple counts also has some legal precedent but would need to be expanded to dv cases. That’s a change I support completely.

PlanDeRaccordement Thu 05-Dec-19 09:26:36

Fraggling, I do not know why you insist on mischaracterising my words.
It’s the same process with any crime or civil wrong. The victim has to report and file charges. Members of the public complaining about news articles don’t have much impact.

I did not say any of those things you listed from none of your businesses to the last word of your post- you are choosing to mischaracterise my comments.

My stating facts on what works to change things for women (file a legal action) compared to what does not work to change things (Email a whiny complaint). What is more helpful on a feminist page? Saying what works or defending blindly what does not work? Which helps women more?

Fraggling Thu 05-Dec-19 15:56:17

'Members of the public complaining about news articles don’t have much impact.'

In your opinion.

Fraggling Thu 05-Dec-19 16:01:45

Putting the onus on individual members of the public, who may be vulnerable / not will off enough to do so, is a rubbish idea.

The law is there for people who can use it. But society or groups within society can and do effect change for the better.

This is 'no such thing as society' and everyone for themselves to the max. Like I said before. No thanks.

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