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Blaming women for men's suicide

(90 Posts)
Gingerkittykat Sun 01-Dec-19 16:35:03

Ex blamed for causing mean's suicide.

I'm so angry at this article, and not just because I am arguing with a local MRA about it. The man was obviously in a bad place and let down badly by mental health services but lets blame the woman because that is easier.

TileFloors Mon 02-Dec-19 08:44:06

Men complete suicide more than women because they choose more violent methods. Women attempt suicide more than men.

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 08:51:48

Tile floors,
That’s not what the statistics say. The method of suicide is not much different between the sexes.

“As in previous years, the most common method of suicide in the UK for both males and females was hanging, suffocation or strangulation (all grouped together). In 2018, this accounted for 59.4% of all suicides among males (2,912 deaths) and 45.0% of all suicides among females (722 deaths; see Figure 9).

The second most common method of suicide was poisoning, accounting for 17.9% of all suicides among males (877 deaths) and 36.2% of all suicides among females (580 deaths).”
See: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2018registrations

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 08:54:24

Here is full chart.

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 09:03:31

I don’t know if the news is being irresponsible or not. Depends upon the facts of this case. It does happen that a person drives another person to suicide. Was not a woman recently convicted of doing this by constantly texting her boyfriend and harassing him telling him to kill himself?
If the news is reporting anything other than what the inquest concluded, yes it is irresponsible. The news is often sensationalist and most people I know take what the news with skepticism and look up facts on their own.

LongLiveThePenis Mon 02-Dec-19 10:05:59

@PlanDeRaccordement, the statistics will show similar methods of suicide methods... because those are the ones which tend to work. We don't record suicide attempts because these aren't reported often.
Women attempt suicide more often but using other methods which take longer and give them more time to change their mind i.e. overdoses. Males are statistically much more likely to be successful in a suicide attempt due to the methods they tend to choose. I learned this from a suicide prevention training course.

No one should be blamed for someone else's suicide because by definition it is killing oneself. You can make someone feel very low and they can be very unwell already, but even if you put the pills in their hand, you are not the one swallowing them.

NotBadConsidering Mon 02-Dec-19 10:46:08

Sometimes it is the case though - my friends suicide note was proof of that

But if you read the article, the headline is the opinion of his girlfriend at the time - not a confirmed fact, he committed suicide in March, two and a half months after his ex presumably said no to access - the reasons for which may be perfectly valid - and he had a longstanding history of poor mental health. So in this case, the headline stands out for being misleading to the point of significant harm to his ex and their children.

I think it’s disgraceful.

sillysmiles Mon 02-Dec-19 10:55:16

*Don't be ridiculous.
If the mother of your children doesn't want you to see her kids, it means you should be nicer or more thoughtful and not so selfish.*

What BS. They are not her kids they are their kids. The mother doesn't/shouldn't have sole say in these things - its about the children not about the woman. How bitter and twisted must any woman be to use her children as weapons.

Sagradafamiliar Mon 02-Dec-19 11:06:02

There was a thread a couple of weeks ago where someone said if women were nicer to men, male suicide rates would drop. Astounding. The couple of posters who protested were called 'callous' and without empathy.

Also, not to comment on this particular article/case, but generally speaking, I SO wish men would stop being infantilised when it comes to their roles as fathers. If they are 'stopped' from 'seeing their kids', then there are things they can do. If more friends and family directed them to legal, practical advice instead of agreeing with them that women are bitter, bad mums etc, then more men might get off their backsides and Facebook accounts and take on some parenting. Or maybe not.

FWRLurker Mon 02-Dec-19 13:20:22

To the people in this thread who know the man who took his own life (or similar cases) I am sorry for your loss. I hope that you are able to attend suicide bereavement counseling.

Certainly his children should be, and there they will learn that the reason their father took his life was because he had a sickness in his mind called depression which led him to choose to take his own life. They will also learn that was his choice and no one else’s to make that choice. They will learn that the only effective means to reduce suicide completion are societal, not individual. That no matter whether you are kind or rude or accommodating or unreasonable towards a person they may still take their own life and that is solely their choice.

The alternative is that his children are taught that they in the future may be responsible for someone else taking their own life, or that they might think they could have stopped his suicide. Which would be an abomination. This article is deeply irresponsible to the mental health of these children.

Coyoacan Mon 02-Dec-19 13:38:55

Being a parent is not about you, it is about the child/ren. I used to fantasise about killing myself but as soon as I became a mother that was no longer an option. We have to teach our children resilience and that is not the way to go about it.

I'll not condemn the man because I presume it was a temporary madness, but the children are the victims here.

StrangeLookingParasite Mon 02-Dec-19 14:56:13

If the mother of your children doesn't want you to see her kids, it means you should be nicer or more thoughtful and not so selfish.

This is just an appalling thing to say, as if no woman was ever an utter bitch, as if all men were always responsible.

P1nkHeartLovesCake Mon 02-Dec-19 15:11:22

If the mother of your children doesn't want you to see her kids, it means you should be nicer or more thoughtful and not so selfish

Because no woman has ever been a spiteful bitch? All women are lovely little flowers and would never not allow a father access to spite him would she? Also they aren’t HER children, they are their children.

In terms of what the OP posted about, of course the headline shouldn’t of been used but that’s what papers do isn’t it man kills himself is hardly an interesting headline.

He was obviously suffering with mental health in order to take his own life and it is sad. Being denied access to his dc probably didn’t help but lack of mental health services won’t of helped either.

It’s sad anyone gets to stage they think killing them self is the only option they have

SpamChaudFroid Mon 02-Dec-19 15:13:37

I remember that thread sagrada.

My husband took his own life and I was blamed. Nobody said so (except my own mother, but that's another story) but you can feel it when people start avoiding you. You know everybody's thinking "So what did she do to drive him to it". Headlines like the one in OP perpetuate this way of thinking.

SpamChaudFroid Mon 02-Dec-19 15:18:10

utter bitch

spiteful bitch

On a thread about a woman who has lost her husband to suicide on a feminist board. JFC.

Coyoacan Mon 02-Dec-19 15:23:42

SpamChaudFroid flowers

Maybe people were avoiding you because they didn't know what to say.

Apart from the awful hurt to the accused ex and their children, that headline encourages the idea that people can use suicide as a means of getting back at someone, which runs the risk of copycat suicides. That is against all media guidelines

sillysmiles Mon 02-Dec-19 15:25:42

@SpamChaudFroid
Ah no, the pp who said that were talking about a/any woman who refuses to allow the children's father access to children for their own personal/spiteful reasons.

FWRLurker Mon 02-Dec-19 15:40:13

woman who refuses to allow the children's father access to children

I’m afraid that ultimately if he wants to see his kids it is his responsibility to use the law to force the issue. Just as it would be on the other direction.

But none of this justifies the implication of the pp here that the article was “accurate” to imply the suicide was caused by the ex wife behavior 3 months earlier.

This implication will harm his children and prevent all his loved ones from accepting the difficult reality - that it was his decision and due to his depression, whatever he may have said in his suicide note written at the nadir of his mental health. Not to mention harm to others who will feel responsible for their loved ones mental health when they in reality cannot be.

Sagradafamiliar Mon 02-Dec-19 15:57:51

SpamChaudFroid, I really am sorry to read that thanks

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 16:06:54

Longlivepenis.
My post was in response to tilefloors saying that “men use more violent methods than women”

Not the women attempt more often than men statement. How did you confuse the two when everything I posted was about method not the number of attempts?

FWRLurker Mon 02-Dec-19 16:17:47

Plan,

But your data did not include the methods used for all suicide attempts, only the methods that led to suicide completions.

The former is most relevant to the point that a major reason men complete suicide more than women is because they attempt suicide using more deadly methods.

Gingerkittykat Mon 02-Dec-19 16:23:00

My ex told me he would kill himself and he would make sure everyone knew it was all my fault, he never acted on it though since it was just a manipulative ploy on his part.

No person is ever responsible for another person's suicide.

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 16:23:34

llp
No one should be blamed for someone else's suicide because by definition it is killing oneself. You can make someone feel very low and they can be very unwell already, but even if you put the pills in their hand, you are not the one swallowing them.

I disagree and so does the justice system. Women (not just men) are bullied into suicide all the time. A 12yr old girl in Florida jumped off a roof after being told to kill herself by 15 other girls at her school. It’s not about blaming innocent people who have inadvertently hurt a fragile persons feelings. There are evil bullies and torturers that do in fact deliberately drive people to insanity and suicide over periods of months to years.

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 16:26:38

FWRlurker-
Ok, do you have any sources on these attempts and the wildly different methods that were used compared to completed suicides?
I don’t think attempt methods are much different from what is being tracked as your example of overdose as an attempt method is the second most common method of completed suicide under poisoning.

PlanDeRaccordement Mon 02-Dec-19 16:34:16

Op- yes some people with personality disorders threaten suicide to manipulate their victims but their existence doesn’t mean that people actually pushed into suicide do not exist.

No one should be automatically blamed for a suicide. It’s why investigations should be done to establish the facts and circumstances.

LongLiveThePenis Mon 02-Dec-19 16:48:00

@PlanDeRaccordement, men do use more violet methods than women. Apologies if I didnt get that across to you in my post. Again, learned at suicide prevention training.
Could you link the case of the 15 year old please? I'd like to read that and see how the people who were bullying that girl were dealt with. I imagine the type of bullying was illegal so could have been dealt with under harassment legislation but I doubt they were convicted of suicide or manslaughter.
I'm so sorry that this seems to be a sticking point for you but you cannot force someone to commit suicide. That is murder.
@Gingerkittykat, that is so shit, I hope he's stopped making those threats now. It is awful to make someone else worry like that.

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