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"Schools told all lessons for five-year-olds should include gay and trans themes"

(123 Posts)
Igneococcus Sun 01-Dec-19 07:43:53

"Voluntary" guidance from Stonewall:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-told-all-lessons-for-five-year-olds-should-include-gay-and-trans-themes-2tqblg8hh?shareToken=3ef5f878c2cff99ee913ca279929e248

Creepster Mon 02-Dec-19 21:14:55

Too many children have been convinced they were "born in the wrong body" because they do not conform to sex role stereotypes.
Telling our children it is just pretend is likely the safest response, I think.
Certainly teaching them there is something wrong with their body because of the toys they play with or the clothes they wear is child abuse.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 02-Dec-19 21:13:16

Yep, for a small child that's about as much as they're reasonably able to understand. It often seems like the people creating the trans education for kids material have never spoken to a small child in their life, as they seem to vastly overestimate their language processing skills.

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 21:09:54

That's it in a nutshell.

It's impossible to explain to primary ages children in ways that don't perpetuate stereotypes or confuse children. Or lie.

terfsandwich Mon 02-Dec-19 19:51:22

I've told my child that some people pretend to be the opposite sex and it's polite not to stare.
That's enough for early primary I reckon.

merrymouse Mon 02-Dec-19 18:18:22

everyone thought she was a boy but that felt so wrong to her that she asked everyone to treat her like a girl

How do you explain what it means to treat somebody like a girl?

and took medicine to help change her body

How? What was the connection between being treated like a girl and the medicine?

SarahTancredi Mon 02-Dec-19 17:11:40

A world where sex doesn't exist but non binary relies on believing in binary sex. And what are they transitioning to or from.if it isnt real.

Everything has to be gender neutral except only through expressing gender can you apparently tell what someone is.

It's not about stereotypes but theres no explanation of what a women is where stereotypes arent included.

hmmconfused

MrsPear Mon 02-Dec-19 16:57:08

I really can’t believe that we now live in a world whereas parents actively seek to drug there children because they are girls that like cars or boys that like dolls. Why are we still living in a world full of stereotypes and even worse teaching these stereotypes? What next no education for children who are girls as it’s unfeminine?!

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 16:50:42

And they could as Dr Ronx binds and is non binary, but uses she at least...

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 16:49:52

I think the point a poster made upthread about how to explain what trans actually means is pertinent - I know I will have to do so at some point with ds as I know of children locally who may have begun to follow that route.

It can't be taboo as it's a factor of daily life now. But it will be honest and similar to how the poster described. He will know that sex and gender are very different things. And he will be taught to respect people's choices and treat others with compassion, but also be aware that women have rights for a damn good reason.

Luckily he knows a couple of very GNC older girls who he admires and loves (family/ close friends). And he's very interested in the natural world and biology; was explaining how viruses replicate this morning with dna 🧬 (! - tv?? Operation ouch? He's 7!) so I doubt it'll be difficult to explain. (As long as operation ouch don't spout this crap...)

Qcng Mon 02-Dec-19 13:57:15

I completely agree with posters above that teaching children some adults love other adults of the same sex is totally fine, and indeed necessary.

Teaching them that humans can change sex, and that homosexuality doesn't exist because a male and a female can both be the same gender, is what has completely messed up an entire generation of millennials.

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 09:23:30

Kat, Kevin joint leader of the NEU did attend a WPUK meeting recently and didn't see any issues in what was said - however is keeping fairly tight lipped as understandably will get shot down in flames.

Birdsfoottrefoil Mon 02-Dec-19 08:46:51

*prams

Birdsfoottrefoil Mon 02-Dec-19 08:46:35

(She got dolls and prays too - which her younger brother also enjoyed playing with)

KatvonHostileExtremist Mon 02-Dec-19 08:45:56

At least the NEU says this
" It is not necessary to make all toilet facilities gender neutral however, because some students will prefer single-sex toilets."

Small mercies.

Birdsfoottrefoil Mon 02-Dec-19 08:45:28

I bought, or asked others to buy, my daughter toy garages, trainsets, tool kits, science sets, cars, mechano-type stuff etc for her birthdays and Christmases. Because why not?

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 02-Dec-19 08:05:33

I had a scalextric when I was a kid. And a Star Wars duvet cover. The person who wrote that book would have had me at the doctor talking about getting my boobs removed before I'd even had time to figure out how I felt about having them.

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 07:00:51

I stumbled across this delight the other day; actually written by a primary school teacher.

Literally, the most stereotypical book I've * ever* read. "If you dislike pink and like to ride a bike through mud, you're a boy."

This Is Me: The Girl Who Was Really a Boy https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/190932079X/ref=cmsww_rcpp_apiii_Ixl5DbWRFBPXS

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 06:56:50

In fact, children's books are going to be how a lot of this gets in.

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 06:50:51

*Training

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 06:50:10

And it's going to get worse.

From very recent trading, the new ofsted framework wants subject leaders in primary schools to be completely in charge of their subject, making sure Cpd is effective and the curriculum progresses step by step building on previous knowledge. Curriculum design is to reflect school cohorts. Ofsted are also taking easing very seriously and so stories and books and literacy skills are going to be even more a major factor in all subjects.

Organisations such as charities, museums etc are falling over themselves to make them selves relevant to secure funding. (In all subjects but pshe is a hot potato.)

Basically one woke pshe teacher in an area where they deem it necessary and there is little limit to what might come in. If they want to buy a load of books with a particular theme, they will.

RuffleCrow Mon 02-Dec-19 06:45:27

Yes to the gay, no to the trans. Send that trojan horse right back! I want my children to be taught masculinity and femininity are cultural and individual not "innate" and requiring special treatment.

NeurotrashWarrior Mon 02-Dec-19 06:42:02

Minmin's entire world is clearly based on stereotypes.

Agree with everything written by koshkat, excellent posts. Incidentally, when were you banned from tes? Within the last year it seems to have changed, and a poster called vince is fighting the GC cause very well, also spotted on twitter. I hardly go there but did spot this around 6 mo ago.

rodgmum it's just awful, I'm so sorry. I daily cannot fathom how teachers do not recognise the safeguarding harm. I'm a teacher myself and trying very hard to fight the cause internally. it's insipid.

CherryBathBomb Mon 02-Dec-19 02:10:54

Too young!
Don't brainwash them at that age hmm

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 02-Dec-19 02:03:46

Just out of interest, minmin, how does one tell that a woman is old based on words written on a forum (that don't include mention of her age)? Do you always assume people who disagree with you are old (and bitter), or just women? At what age does one become too old for one's opinion to matter?

FWRLurker Mon 02-Dec-19 01:23:10

i wish someone had told me it was fine to like stereotypically boys things and still be a girl and be great as I was.

And my parents DID tell me that and for which I am immensely grateful despite disagreeing with them on many other issues (they’re politically conservative I’m a Leftie).

Ive been thinking lately about why this stuff bothers me so much. I think it is because it is telling children they need to lie in front of other people for those other peoples comfort. It’s a gross violation of the person. It’s sort of like requiring your child to hug that weird aunt/uncle they last saw 4 years ago because otherwise would be impolite. Just don’t.

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