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"Schools told all lessons for five-year-olds should include gay and trans themes"

(123 Posts)
Igneococcus Sun 01-Dec-19 07:43:53

"Voluntary" guidance from Stonewall:

mcduffy Sun 01-Dec-19 07:46:46

Just came on to post this. There's such a big difference IMO between same-sex couples (no big deal to explain this to my pre-school age kids) and wanting to change sex (being sold an impossible idea).

Igneococcus Sun 01-Dec-19 07:51:23

Yes, I have no issue with children being taught about same sex relationships but trans is a very different issue.

Igneococcus Sun 01-Dec-19 07:53:38

Also just seen thhis:

mcduffy Sun 01-Dec-19 07:59:02

Excellent coverage by the Times today smile

shiveringtimber Sun 01-Dec-19 08:00:50

Five year olds do not need to learn about sexuality.

littlecabbage Sun 01-Dec-19 08:00:53

Tanya Carter, from the Safe Schools Alliance, a group of concerned parents, grandparents, teachers and others, said: “We are in favour of teaching about same-sex families, but we are concerned that the aim of challenging homophobia is being used to sneak gender ideology into the curriculum. It is being taught as fact that children can be born in the wrong body and are able to change sex, neither of which is true.”

This paragraph from the article sums up my opinion on this. Same-sex families - yes, please teach my children about this (although I wouldn't be comfortable about advocating surrogacy for male same-sex couples. Adoption - fine.). Trans ideology - do not teach my children confusing, sexist, homophobic, dangerous nonsense.

littlecabbage Sun 01-Dec-19 08:02:27

Five year olds do not need to learn about sexuality

Not the er... physical "ins and outs", no, but to learn about same-sex couples being in a loving relationship - yes.

SimonJT Sun 01-Dec-19 08:06:08

@shiveringtimber So should all five year olds have single parents then? Otherwise how would you stop them finding out about heterosexuality?

Siameasy Sun 01-Dec-19 08:09:56

My DD (5) already knows about periods and what male and female mean, that you can’t change sex but can wear what you want etc

When she asks about reproduction I will tell her in an age appropriate way (factual not stork)

We need to lose the squeamishness about sex-the people pushing gender theory are counting on your child being a blank canvas.

Meganc559 Sun 01-Dec-19 08:12:38

I don't think 5 year old need to hear about trans
Kids at that age are like sponges and they may get confused by what they re being told

velocitygirl7 Sun 01-Dec-19 08:15:33

I work with 3/4 year olds and they absolutely need to start to learn about sexuality.
I have had a fair few children with same sex parents and we always touch on this when we talk about families.

myduckiscooked Sun 01-Dec-19 08:20:13

Siam I completely agree. My friends, some of whom are medically trained, were talking about the dreaded “talk” a while back. It cannot be a dreaded subject matter. It is just facts, nothing more.

GCAcademic Sun 01-Dec-19 08:23:41

In religious education lessons, pupils should be taught about naming ceremonies for people who change gender, according to the guidance, which has been sponsored by the publisher Pearson and the Government Equalities Office (GEO) from a £1m grant awarded to LGBT organisations.

This sounds good to me. Teach gender ideology as a being a religion that some people believe. That is what it is, after all.

That’s what they mean, right?

RedToothBrush Sun 01-Dec-19 08:30:10


Just no.

I have already had issues with my son getting upset because his best mate said he was a girl because he has long hair. My son is very resilient on this and was adament he is a boy because he has a willy. I still had to reassure him it was OK to have long hair if he liked it that way and lots of famous men had long hair. And we've had conversations over pink being 'for girls' too. I had to point out his daddy likes wearing pink but he's definitely a boy (his dad does like pink).

DS is frequently a dinosaur.

He's a clever boy but he simply lacks the capacity to understand this stuff at age 5. I've already taken a conscious decision to distance myself from my family because it was causing me distress and him confusion at home. Its a subject we will have to broach at some point but I do not understand why this might be taken out of my control and before he has the maturity to deal with the subject properly.

This isn't a game. This is the reality of some peoples lives and its a deeply complex and adult issue.

5 year old need to understand both sex and gender and difference between them to properly understand the concept of being trans and they need to understand the issue of stereotypes and how not everyone conforms to stereotypes in order to be able to know the difference between being non conforming and trans.

Otherwise you are just going to erode boundaries which protect kids on the basis of sex and you are going to confuse the hell out of them.

This is so wrong. It smacks of adults putting their own needs and political agendas ahead of the cognitive and emotional development of children and their understanding of the whole. That is a massive safeguarding risk of its own right there.

Siameasy Sun 01-Dec-19 08:30:24

myduck same, I have friends with pre-teens where the kids must be starting puberty but they’ve told them nothing because “ew”.
A lot of people cringe over telling their kids the real names of genitals and indeed talking about them at all.

minminminnie Sun 01-Dec-19 08:51:26

the transphobia on this website is abhorrent

RedToothBrush Sun 01-Dec-19 09:05:20

Stonewall definition of homosexuality is homophobic. Sex is not gender.

These are important concepts to understand.

Transphobia can't exist if sex is erased and replaced by gender as it can not be recorded or defined.

So in order to teach children that transphobia is wrong they have to properly understand sex and gender and they have to understand non conformity is legitimate in every area of life. Trans ideology is instead pushing gender stereotypes and conformity not freedom to be who you want because of its militancy. And at the same time is legitimising and promoting institutionalised homophobia.

But yeah its Mumsnet that's wrong for pointing out the painfully ill thought out and contradictory bullshit that activists want to shove down 5 year olds throats in the form of incoherent nonsensical word salad.

OneEpisode Sun 01-Dec-19 09:07:21

Minnie You should click on anything hateful and report it to the mods who will delete.

Milanimilani Sun 01-Dec-19 09:12:32

Its adding extra work and confusion into parenting. We are all going to have children coming home and having to get over the dissonance of school teaching the truth apart from about changing sex. I can see it further eroding trust in ‘experts’.

OneEpisode Sun 01-Dec-19 09:12:44

Or, Minnie do you think boys who play with dolls sometimes should be put on GNHRa meds ASAP so they never have any sexual function, so there is no risk of a Med-free happily gay person in your family?

shiveringtimber Sun 01-Dec-19 09:13:46

Five is too young. As of 6-7 only. And no stereotyping, obviously. It's perfectly fine to have two daddies or two mummies or a mummy and a daddy or one parent.

WendyMoiraAngelaDarling Sun 01-Dec-19 09:15:41

the transphobia on this website is abhorrent

There is no transphobia on this thread or are you talking about a different thread? Do report it wherever you see it though won't you.

Hepsibar Sun 01-Dec-19 09:23:40

Can we not allow children's early school days to be about learning to learn, being kind, playing, maths, languages, science, art, PE, being kind to people and accepting that people can be different? And obviously all the specifics with children with special needs, safeguarding, health and safety, sports and so on.

Pityparty4one Sun 01-Dec-19 09:26:10

I think children aged 5 do need to learn about relationships but not sexuality the two are very different.

Teach children that relationships look many different ways but the importance is that the relationships are happy and healthy for all concerned.
Why is there this need to have children validate an adults sexuality?
It's creepy and stinks of indoctrination.

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