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Gender critical SNP candidate ditched by party

(74 Posts)
BlackForestCake Fri 29-Nov-19 20:14:26

Two weeks before polling day the SNP has dumped a candidate and withdrawn all support for him: www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-withdraws-support-for-kirkcaldy-and-cowdenbeath-candidate-neale-hanvey-1-5054128

Neale Hanvey, standing in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, will still be on the ballot as the papers have already been printed. He is accused of having shared allegedly antisemitic content on Facebook in 2016.

I am not the only one who thinks allegedly antisemitic posts are not the real reason. Hanvey supports the Women's Pledge and has met ForWomen Scotland. I think he has been targeted from within the SNP for his support for women's rights. We know that there are genderist extremists who have infiltrated the party. We can now also see that they would rather hand the seat to a unionist than have an SNP MP who supports women.

(This hypothesis is now being denounced by sockpuppets on Twitter as a "conspiracy theory", which suggests that it's correct).

Goannaforanna Mon 02-Dec-19 10:36:13

I don't expect everyone to know everything. I'm part of a marginalised group- one that's not all that uncommon. I don't imagine that my elected reps will know how to speak on issues related to my community. What I do expect is that they be willing to learn and that they treat people with respect.

LangCleg Mon 02-Dec-19 09:59:33

I think people running for public office have a duty to educate themselves enough that they don't share discriminatory pictures out of ignorance.

For once, Cohle, we actually agree about something!

I think that everyone standing for political office needs to approach this issue - in which people of good faith can genuinely disagree about the rights and wrongs of the Israel/Palestine situation - in the same way sectarianism is approached in NI and Scotland. Language, cultural signifiers, images etc, are all hotly contested and highly emotive and must be implemented with an extremely high duty of care. Ignorance cannot be an excuse.

Cohle Mon 02-Dec-19 09:30:51

I think people running for public office have a duty to educate themselves enough that they don't share discriminatory pictures out of ignorance.

If you were a Jewish family living in his constituency how do you think you'd feel possibly having him represent you in parliament? Knowing that he felt anti-semitism was an issue it was ok to be ignorant about or "to have a different viewpoint or understanding" about?

Goannaforanna Mon 02-Dec-19 07:59:35

Absolutely Janeskettle. My comments arise from the idea that it seems currently very easy to say or do something wrong out of ignorance or a different viewpoint or understanding (I'm not saying that this is in play in this case but I have seen it in others- particularly where Americans wish to push their view of the world as the only one) and that's the end of you. It seems that it has become irrelevant whether someone is actually racist or antisemitic or ablest or whatever- if they say or do something considered not right they should be shunned. I think it's very unhelpful but it is evident in this convo.

TimeLady Sun 01-Dec-19 20:53:11

Not sure where that ok came from? It wouldn't even cross my mind to use anti-Jewish tropes. Soros is an exiled Hungarian billionaire who lives in the States, I believe, and needs to keep his nose and his money out of European affairs.

TimeLady Sun 01-Dec-19 20:48:34

Ok

JanesKettle Sun 01-Dec-19 20:24:06

www.facebook.com/events/2404634499865765/

Clearly, one can critique Soros along with others who put money into promoting genderist causes. Just don't use anti-Jewish tropes to do it.

If you didn't know about the puppet master thing, you didn't know. Now you do. 20 min on the internet will give you an overview of the major tropes, many of which have been present in society for centuries.

Jewish women and girls are females too, who are impacted by anti-Semitic imagery and language. Out of sisterhood, if nothing else, we can make the effort to make any critiques of Soros free of anti-Jewishness.

JanesKettle Sun 01-Dec-19 20:11:59

twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1201065815740694528

ShesDressedInBlackAgain Sun 01-Dec-19 19:25:08

No one has said that being Jewish absolves anyone of anything. They have said that criticism of Soros should not veer into anti-Semitism. Which is surely obviously true?

AnyOldPrion Sun 01-Dec-19 19:05:22

Thanks Sonic. That was utterly predictable. The power behind this movement continues to be frightening.

SonicVersusGynaephobia Sun 01-Dec-19 17:36:04

Seen it in a few places, but this was one tweet talking about it:

twitter.com/GordonHay404/status/1201105813424758790?s=19

TimeLady Sun 01-Dec-19 17:35:47

I didn't know Soros was Jewish. I wouldn't have recognised him in the cartoon. I didn't know a puppet master was an anti-Jewish trope. And I would criticise anyone wealthy and male who was funding transgender ideology.

Me neither. Being Jewish doesn't absolve him from being accountable for his actions either. I regard him as a malign influence.

TimeLady Sun 01-Dec-19 17:33:31

I didn't know Soros was Jewish. I wouldn't have recognised him in the cartoon. I didn't know a puppet master was an anti-Jewish trope. And I would criticise anyone wealthy and male who was funding transgender ideology.

Me neither. And being Jewish doesn't absolve him from criticism of his actions. I

AnyOldPrion Sun 01-Dec-19 17:24:43

Now they are trying to blame Joanna Cherry for it!

On Twitter? Are there screenshots? (or a link, though if they’re very woke, they may have blocked me).

SonicVersusGynaephobia Sun 01-Dec-19 17:20:39

Oh dear. I didn't know Soros was Jewish. I wouldn't have recognised him in the cartoon. I didn't know a puppet master was an anti-Jewish trope. And I would criticise anyone wealthy and male who was funding transgender ideology.

I am quite clued-in on feminism, but not religion etc (because I have no interest in it). I appreciate that politicians need to have more awareness than your average person though and so more should be obvious to them.

This has been an inside job from the Wee Woke Clique of the SNP Trans Lobby though, all because he signed the Women's Pledge. Now they are trying to blame Joanna Cherry for it!

Itsallgonetoofar Sun 01-Dec-19 10:56:11

The Jewish puppet master is an old anti Semitic trope, someone with sufficient interest in politics to stand as a candidate should be aware of that.

He may have been targeted for exposure because of his GC views but if he hadn't anti Semitic behaviour to expose he wouldn't have had a problem. As long as they remove all candidates behaving the same I don't have any sympathy.

Unfortunately ruling out parties supporting those with anti Semitic and anti Islam views plus the outright racists and women haters takes out all major parties in England hmm

ShesDressedInBlackAgain Sun 01-Dec-19 10:13:47

Well it sounds like he did a bit more than that from his apology. And he did it in a political climate where perhaps it might be helpful if people standing for public office tried to understand anti-Semitism and actively avoid it rather than simply blundering around in a sensitive discourse. So no, I don't agree.

Goannaforanna Sun 01-Dec-19 00:09:54

My comments about not knowing were not to deny that the cartoon would be interpreted as anti-semitic but to point out that it's entirely possible to not be anti-semitic and not to know that the image was a problem (and like someone else, I also didn't know that George Soros was Jewish. I actually presumed that the cartoon must have applied Jewish appearance tropes so that people knew but it didn't). My concern is that those going on about prejudice are seemingly not concerned whether this person is actually anti-semitic. He shared the news piece, it contained something that people understanding to be antisemitic and the fact that he may have been unaware of that is irrelevant. Cancel culture at its best.

AnyOldPrion Sat 30-Nov-19 22:59:40

You don't want to bother learning more about anti-semitism because someone has pointed out your ignorance? That's the laziest most ridiculous excuse for prejudice I've ever heard.

Hmmm... I said because I was being treated like an idiot. I know I’m not perfect, but I’m not an idiot and don’t deserve to be treated as one.

Anyway, I seem to have had a post deleted, presumably for posting a quotation which I looked up too quickly. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it posted here a number of times and therefore did not check properly.

I see it was genuinely from an anti-Semitic source and I am sorry to anyone I offended.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain Sat 30-Nov-19 22:39:22

I think he's done well with that apology. Good for him. I also think that it would help if everyone standing for office tried to understand what people are pointing to in this conversation about anti-semitism. It really doesn't take too much mental agility to understand that, for example, comparing Israel to the Nazis is likely to be fucking offensive hmm

JanesKettle Sat 30-Nov-19 22:09:56

scratching my head over the whole Labour and unthinking anti-Semitism thing.

See, that's never surprised me, because Labor is pro-Palestinian (as am I), and unless one is careful to examine one's language + perspective, it's quite easy to adopt unthinkingly anti-Semitic attitudes and speech eg calling out the nation of Israel, instead of policies enacted by the current Israeli government.

nauticant Sat 30-Nov-19 22:00:09

It is an eye-opener. Until I found this thread I found myself scratching my head over the whole Labour and unthinking anti-Semitism thing. "How do people, especially progressives, get into that mode of thinking?" I asked myself.

Well, thanks to this thread I now have some insights.

JanesKettle Sat 30-Nov-19 21:50:54

nauticant

Not speaking about this thread or FWR particularly, but it's been truly depressing the last few years to see 1. how much casual anti-Semistism there is in society and 2. how little people are bothered about it.

I am not particularly educated in these topics - I'm not Jewish, I haven't studied history or religion past 12th grade - anything I know just comes from general reading and general exposure. But a lot of the time it's just so clear - murals included. I felt the puppet master image was likewise clear to the average person who has had some high school exposure to, say, anti- Jewish propaganda used by Nazis.

nauticant Sat 30-Nov-19 21:42:14

That's very informative GrumpyGran8.

If Hanvey has sincerely apologised then credit to him. The value of this thread is to see how often we see that, when it comes to anti-Semitism, "how was I supposed to know that" is advanced as a defence instead of "gosh, really, then I'm apologise for getting it badly wrong".

GrumpyGran8 Sat 30-Nov-19 21:34:01

I thought that that was what the candidate did, apologise?
Yes, here's his statement.
Please note that he didn't share the cartoon, but an article that the cartoon was embedded in; he probably didn't even see it.
Now, let me tell you a story. The very first tweet from Magdelen Berns was that I saw swas - apparently - an anti-semitic cartoon about George Soros; it was the image that came up in the tweet, with no text. As a result, I spent several months dismissing her and refusing to watch any of her videos. I really did think she was anti-semitic! It was only when i posted something to that effect (it may even have been on here) and got rightly jumped on, that I went back and searched for the tweet. It turned out that Berns had actually RTd an article on anti-semitism that was illustrated with that vile cartoon, and it was that image that had come up in the tweet.
So, I'm prepared to give Hanvey the benefit of the doubt on this.

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