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An insurance company now wishes to lecture us

(208 Posts)
JustHereWithMyPopcorn Wed 27-Nov-19 20:39:39

Aviva shared these lovely tweets today. I am actually insured with them but I will not be renewing. And they are not bothered by customers leaving, clearly.

DodoPatrol Wed 27-Nov-19 20:44:38

Do they mean greater acceptance for lesbian and gay people in sports? Or acceptance of trans people in their birth sex categories? Either of those is to be applauded. It’s just inclusion in wrong-sex categories that’s the problem.

Yesyesitsme Wed 27-Nov-19 20:49:15

I'm all for including and welcoming the LGBT community in sports, and the rainbow laces campaign.

But I'm against transwomen competing in women's sports.

I don't think Aviva have done much wrong here.

GoFiguire Wed 27-Nov-19 20:49:39

I don’t understand what the problem is OP.

GetbusywiththeFizzee Wed 27-Nov-19 20:55:11

Shortly renewing insurance on a couple of properties, will give Aviva the wide berth they deserve. Good work Katie (and the numpty who left you in charge of the Twitter account) 👍

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 20:55:13

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 20:56:00

GoFiguire - just check out their tweets. All very wokeyblokey.

NotAssigned Wed 27-Nov-19 20:56:03

More tweets

OvaHere Wed 27-Nov-19 20:59:08

This is what happens when the waters are muddied by Stonewall because there are very different issues at play depending what part of the alphabet you focus on.

For example there is a big issue with lack of acceptance of gay men in team sports especially at a high level e.g. premiership football. I think tackling this is something many people would get behind.

However this is completely different to males competing and dominating in women's sports because of identity and pronouns.

Considering how much money Stonewall has I think it's pretty shoddy that they go for these vague soundbites and mantras that specify absolutely nothing.

It might be a shame that people are now telling them and anyone associated with them to fuck off but they've created all this distrust.

Procrastinator2 Wed 27-Nov-19 21:02:35

Jan Gooding, chair of Stonewall, used to work for Aviva.

AutumnRose1 Wed 27-Nov-19 21:08:07

“ This is what happens when the waters are muddied by Stonewall because there are very different issues at play depending what part of the alphabet you focus on.”

This.

I must be honest, my elderly mother has insurance with them and this would piss her off but if I tell her, I’ll be the one looking for a new insurer and then that one will get stonewalled as well!

Coyoacan Wed 27-Nov-19 21:09:38

Well they obviously have more customers than they can deal with, don't they?

The campaign is not clear but the attitude of Kate ...

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:10:38

Not that Katie maybe...

Michelleoftheresistance Wed 27-Nov-19 21:16:06

Another company that won't rest until women have surrendered their lives, identities, spaces and sport to males.

They're off my list.

Baffled at why retail suddenly involves throwing your preaching and evangelism for advanced misogyny, or Momentum, or Ukip, or Christian Science, or whatever else politics you're personally high on. The point is supposed to be to get people to part with money to buy your product.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:17:31

They think persons will start throwing their money at them.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn Wed 27-Nov-19 21:22:05

Sorry I had to run out and do a DC pick up. My issue isn't about the inclusion of trans people in sport , although 60% said they didn’t feel excluded, of course anyone should be able to play sport. It’s was the tone of Katie and the sort of Lib Dem response to people who aren’t on their page. The Stonewall promotion in their tweet is the giveaway to what they mean by ‘inclusive’ and people are aware enough to pick up on it.

JacobReesClunge Wed 27-Nov-19 21:24:48

An insurance company preaching about welcoming everyone as equal is particularly hilarious.

TheABC Wed 27-Nov-19 21:26:11

Am I the only one who smirked at the "lycra surprise by Mr Motivator"? Poor employees.

Actually, I am wondering now if I can play with my annuity forecasts by declaring myself a transman. It will be interesting to see if they conflate sex and gender where their money is concerned.

stucknoue Wed 27-Nov-19 21:28:06

It's to stop homophobia in team sports! Well male team sports, they have a history of hounding out those who are gay

JustHereWithMyPopcorn Wed 27-Nov-19 21:32:34

That might be the case stucknoue but it doesn’t read that way to me. If it is about that then it should be specific about it’s aims.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:32:43

And now women are being hounded/pushed out of their sports, oh the irony!

spongedog Wed 27-Nov-19 21:34:52

@TheABC that is a good point! There was an EU ruling a few years ago about insurance companies not being able to use sex to distinguish risk. Perhaps that doesnt apply for gender.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn Wed 27-Nov-19 21:35:36

And I’m just reading another of Katie’s tweets about standing with people regardless of their gender identity. That doesn’t sound like male teams hounding out gay men to me.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:36:47

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:37:33

Oh they have their names and photos on their header! Why would a company do that?

Mumoftwoyoungkids Wed 27-Nov-19 21:40:33

Gender neutral toilets lasted all of 9 days at Aviva.....

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:41:57

Why was that then? I wouldn’t want to share loos with the men on my floor (several firms). Apparently the men’s loo is grim.

FemaleAndLearning Wed 27-Nov-19 21:44:26

Looked at Stonewall rainbow laces. It is very vague, but under facilities it mentions gender neutral changing rooms, so mixed sex. No direct mention of trans people identifying into the opposite sex class.
www.stonewall.org.uk/top-tips-lgbt-inclusion-sport

LangCleg Wed 27-Nov-19 21:47:16

This is what happens when the waters are muddied by Stonewall because there are very different issues at play depending what part of the alphabet you focus on.

Exactly. They've done the LGB no favours.

And it shows exactly how ludicrously unthinking these Woke corporate virtue signals are.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Wed 27-Nov-19 21:49:03

Apparently the men’s loo is grim.

Yep. That was our argument. To be fair they followed all the rules for gender neutral toilets - floor to ceiling doors, sinks in every toilet, tampon disposals in every cubicle. But strangely the women didn’t want wee on the floor. So they switched them back. (To be exact they left a very small number gender neutral but as they used to be male ones nobody cared as the demographic using them did not actually change.)

JustHereWithMyPopcorn Wed 27-Nov-19 21:51:27

Here’s some clarity on their position.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:51:54

Women (generally) just don’t feel comfortable bare-arsed with a flimsy piece of board between them and their male colleagues, rustling tampon packs or piddling/farting. And don’t even think about the ‘arse cams’ planted in loos.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:54:59

Aviva UK - who sell financial products which are generally actual, real sex based - health insurance, pensions, life cover... what a shower of idiots.

This is what happens when you let the weans run amock with the ‘easy’ bit of marketing.

Qcng Wed 27-Nov-19 21:56:13

This is the problem.

We're all for "inclusion of LGBT+++" in sports. Of course we are.
We're NOT all for LGBT+++ inclusion in womens sports at the expense of women.

If they'd put let's make sport inclusive for LGBTABC+ and women now that I would go for.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 21:59:39

‘Sports for all! Let’s all get active!’ That’s all they needed to say, not bite the rainbow cherry... I blame the grownups in the room

Ihaventgottimeforthis Wed 27-Nov-19 22:11:40

There is a distinction that we must make between encouraging LGBT participation in sport, which I strongly support - sport really is for everyone, and no-one should feel or be excluded - and saying that therefore women's sport cannot be single-sex.
One does not equal the other.
I support Team GB's stance on LGBT inclusivity and acceptance in sport - however I do strongly oppose any move to remove the single-sex rights we have for female sport.
It's not a complicated stance to get across - if we start to conflate protecting women's single sex categories with opposition to LGBT inclusion in sporting activities then that's the wrong way to go.
Much like Labour's position on Brexit, nuance is key.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn Wed 27-Nov-19 22:15:50

Exactly Ihaventgottimeforthis.

Akire Wed 27-Nov-19 22:17:00

Is like living in China or some state, and someone gets the phone call that they’ve heard you are not 100% behind the cause. Hence all shouting screaming and banner waving how wonderful things they are doing to support a small minority’s of LGBT people who don’t feel welcome in sport. I don’t think I know anyone who actual would feel welcomed or happy to go into sports for many other reasons.

If say 30% of your workforce is LGtB and 60% of them are happy in sport then (tries to do the maths)
12% of your work force don’t feel welcome. Why not make everyone more active and have work place teams etc. Can’t see how 82% of your workforce are all happy sporty need no encouragement to be active camp. Just bizzare.

Siameasy Wed 27-Nov-19 22:18:41

Their twitter people all have the same oblivious tone usually deployed by the wild don’t they? Ie someone says they’re going to cancel a policy and they basically say jog on, safe in the knowledge that they’re morally superior

Siameasy Wed 27-Nov-19 22:19:18

Woke not wild!!

PegasusReturns Wed 27-Nov-19 22:24:53

Weirdly my Twitter shows only one response to that tweet - and it's not the OPs

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 22:25:24

I would love the see the face on their boss tomorrow when they have a peek at the twitter feed to see how it’s all been going “you told a hundred customers to ‘fuck off and do one’?????”

littlbrowndog Wed 27-Nov-19 22:30:07

Jeez Kate. Awkward

LangCleg Wed 27-Nov-19 22:49:55

It's not a complicated stance to get across - if we start to conflate protecting women's single sex categories with opposition to LGBT inclusion in sporting activities then that's the wrong way to go.

It's not if you're immersed in the issues. But corporate Woke signalling isn't about the issues, it's about brand promotion and it's as subtle as a brick. Most people know and talk about what they're pissed off about much more than they do what they like. If corporate signalling is all about the T while conflating it with the LGB and people are pissed off about the obvious nonsense of the T, the backlash won't distinguish.

Stonewall has let its core constituency down so badly. It won't end well.

BadgertheBodger Wed 27-Nov-19 22:52:28

As someone who has actually been responsible for the marketing department this sort of thing brings me out in a cold sweat. I would not want to be Katie, or Katie’s boss tomorrow morning. Someone far further up the pecking order who likely gives no fucks about wokeness is most likely about to lose their shit.

theflushedzebra Wed 27-Nov-19 22:55:07

Gawd our life insurance is with Aviva. I'm pretty sure they're aware that a) I'm a woman, and DH is a man, and b) what that means.

Those tweets are utterly disingenuous. It's high time companies stopped letting interns and inexperienced twats loose on their twitter accounts!

In fact, DH and I had a financial adviser round to review our life insurance the other day. I can assure you 100% he wouldn't have rejected our cash on finding out I don't think TWAW.

What is it with these companies and political parties telling people "we don't want your business, or your vote, if you're a gender identity heretic? !

theflushedzebra Wed 27-Nov-19 22:59:20

"Corporations now preach to us as Churchmen once did"

Ain't that the bloody truth!

Funny how in both cases, women, (the cunty kind) are discriminated against and bottom of the pile.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Wed 27-Nov-19 23:01:34

@ BadgertheBodger - yup I’ve been there too.

“Right you fuckers - what fucking hell have you been up to? You are going to spend the rest of your career (about ten mins at this rate) licking fucking stamps in the post room!”

TowelNumber42 Wed 27-Nov-19 23:02:17

Transwomen are women says an insurer. Interesting. Am surprised their actuaries are OK with this as a statement about their policies. Regulator might be interested.

Akire Wed 27-Nov-19 23:02:54

I’ve just read that whole twitter thread it’s quite tame, just lots people saying great but Male bodies against Female bodies is unsafe and unfair. Them just point blank ignoring basic biology facts by shouting But we are inclusive.

It is possible to support the cause and not want women to be driven from sport altogether. It’s just like changing room, women can just stay out altogether just so small minority have free run. There is a way to make it work for everyone, denying there is no problem at all, dosnt just solve it.

TowelNumber42 Wed 27-Nov-19 23:04:46

Do Aviva insure sports people against injury?

theflushedzebra Wed 27-Nov-19 23:07:26

I'm half thinking of ringing Aviva tomorrow, quoting our policy numbers, and asking them if they still want our business? We pay a fairly hefty amount to them each month for life insurance/mortgage protection.

I'm almost 100% sure they would not want to lose our business - but if they did, plenty of other companies would step up.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Wed 27-Nov-19 23:23:56

Am surprised their actuaries are OK with this as a statement about their policies.

Doesn’t matter. Since December 2012 it has been illegal to discriminate by sex anyway. Life insurance - same for men and women. Car insurance - same for men and women. Annuity pricing - same for men and women.

Totally ruined the Sheila’s Wheels advert!

Birdsfoottrefoil Wed 27-Nov-19 23:24:30

I wonder if they insure mixed sex rugby teams against liability for injury at the same rate as single sex ones?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 28-Nov-19 00:35:09

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MsMcWibble Thu 28-Nov-19 10:09:05

Oh! Don't know what to say really.

Siameasy Thu 28-Nov-19 10:15:11

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LangCleg Thu 28-Nov-19 10:20:43

Oh deeeeeeeeeeeeear.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines Thu 28-Nov-19 10:26:25

Doesn’t matter. Since December 2012 it has been illegal to discriminate by sex anyway. Life insurance - same for men and women. Car insurance - same for men and women. Annuity pricing - same for men and women

Yes, it's illegal to charge different prices to customers, but you can bet they're still using it in their projections - it would be ridiculous not to.

All that ruling did is make women pay more and let men pay less, probably with a good margin for error added on.

theflushedzebra Thu 28-Nov-19 10:28:51

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Apileofballyhoo Thu 28-Nov-19 10:33:48

I wonder how they deal with gender for pricing policies. Isn't life assurance cheaper for women?

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles Thu 28-Nov-19 10:36:34

That last tweet! Wow. It's times like these I am sad to be banned from Twitter!

I'm contemplating changing my username to

ItShouldntMatterTerry!

slipperywhensparticus Thu 28-Nov-19 10:41:57

They are an insurance company they are supposed to insure us not preach

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 28-Nov-19 10:52:10

Is it work experience or bring your kid to work day? Anyone got the HOM's email address?

Snorkers Thu 28-Nov-19 10:55:29

I think they've deleted the tweets? Unless i am looking in the wrong place?

MsMcWibble Thu 28-Nov-19 11:05:03

Think it's still there
twitter.com/AvivaUK/status/1199974763910828032

Snorkers Thu 28-Nov-19 11:13:10

officeoftheceo@aviva.com

mement0mori Thu 28-Nov-19 11:21:52

I wonder how they deal with gender for pricing policies. Isn't life assurance cheaper for women?

I've been wondering this too. I suppose if enough males self ID as females, this will probably effect the cheaper policies for actual female people. Also If a lot of males start IDing as female for insurance purposes this would presumably skew the female data so it looks as if women's life expectancy is getting worse etc. Or perhaps insurance companies will start to challenge people's honesty where they have self ID'd as female. Insurance companies are notorious for not paying out on policies where misleading information has been given.

AutumnRose1 Thu 28-Nov-19 11:24:17

Encouraging to see the replies.

mement0mori Thu 28-Nov-19 11:43:35

Actually it appears everything is unisex now anyway so they've nothing to lose smile

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12608777

JustHereWithMyPopcorn Thu 28-Nov-19 11:43:40

Have they deleted the original tweet? This is up now. twitter.com/AvivaUK/status/1199676141184995330

mement0mori Thu 28-Nov-19 11:46:43

"Following the ruling (2012), the ABI estimated that men could see a 10% fall in costs, while women's rates could rise by as much as 20%"

As always with unisex policies only women lose

DadDadDad Thu 28-Nov-19 11:53:07

I am an actuary working in life insurance, and sex is one of the key variables we use to identify risk. As others have mentioned, the EU ruling (on the Test Achats case) back in 2012 means we can't use sex (or gender) to determine different premiums charged to customers. But for managing the finances and risks of the business, our models will apply different assumptions to male and female, because we have a large body of statistical evidence that mortality and sickness rates are different. We might commonly use the word "gender" rather than "sex", but we are referring to the (biological) sex shown on the birth certificate, because for example, rates of breast cancer or testicular cancer are demonstrably different between male and females. I'm not aware that gender reassignment has made much difference to our statistics - I assume at the moment, the number of biological males who are recorded on our systems as female (and vice versa) is too small to affect results.

Just to pick up on this comment:

Insurance companies are notorious for not paying out on policies where misleading information has been given.

I don't think "notorious" is a fair description: if someone has deliberately given incorrect information and a premium was set accordingly, why should the insurer happily pay out when they make a claim? that's not fair on the majority of customers who are truthful and have paid the appropriate premium.

Thehagonthehill Thu 28-Nov-19 11:53:27

Not that inclusive it seems.If you try to get a quote for insurance your title choices are are still Mr,Miss,Mrs,Ms or Doctor.

SciFiScream Thu 28-Nov-19 12:12:46

The bigger concern to me is that they've taken something quite significant to the homosexual community (the notion of "come out") and turned it into an advertising campaign with a hashtag!

That's awful and a sort of cultural appropriation. With the culture being gay and lesbian not geographic.

mement0mori Thu 28-Nov-19 12:16:10

I don't think "notorious" is a fair description

Yes sorry that was a bit strong. I think sometimes it's easy for people to forget stuff not realising that it could affect your policy especially things that happen whilst your policy is already in place and has been running for some time. I understand it is important to be honest and not mislead insurance companies.

VaggieMight Thu 28-Nov-19 12:17:55

The TWAW Tweet has been unliked. I think Mike is trying to tone things down a bit, he's replied to a gay ex-employee who Tweeted yesterday that as employers they are anything but LGB friendly and homophobia and racism is rampant.

DadDadDad Thu 28-Nov-19 12:37:02

@mement0mori - no problem. I was probably a bit sensitive, but insurance companies are sometimes an easy target to be treated as the "bad guys", when honestly most of us working in them are trying to do a good job, actually want to keep our customers happy, and do take seriously the need to treat customers fairly (not just because the regulator tells us too!). That said, I'm not defending the employee at Aviva producing these tweets!

mement0mori Thu 28-Nov-19 12:48:55

I totally understand Dad my post was badly worded.

Snorkers Thu 28-Nov-19 12:58:12

Sent this.

Hello

I am writing to let you know that i will not be considering Aviva UK for my home, car and life insurance renewals totalling £3500 in January due to the shocking misogynistic tweets your organisation has been sending out over the last 24 hours.

I am disgusted that not only are you colluding with a homophobic hate group (Stonewall) to eliminate women from their own sports, but you are also publicly showing support for extreme fetishes on your live feed. (An Autogynephile becomes aroused by pretending to be a woman - this is NOT a trans person - this is an extreme fetish which many straight men are now indulging in to gain access to women's spaces).

Your lack of knowledge of this highly sensitive area which you have waded into so willingly is absolutely shameful.

Need I remind you you are an INSURANCE company and you have absolutely NO business in campaigning against 50% of the population to remove the rights women have fought and died for for millennia.

Mark my words, without a public apology on your twitter feed i will share far and wide with supportive friends and family your attitude to women and girls. Flora found out the hard way what happens when you side with an tiny oppressive minority against women.

Ereshkigal Thu 28-Nov-19 12:59:57

Oh! Don't know what to say really.

Well well!

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 28-Nov-19 13:10:59

I’m going to save that letter for later.

So the children got all excited and carried away. I how they are now being helped with their thinking and their keyboards have been removed from their desks.

Aviva - your name is on the list...

theflushedzebra Thu 28-Nov-19 13:32:13

Come on then, Aviva - let's see the laces for disabled people inclusion in sports.

Or are you just going the whole hog, and demanding the inclusion of able-bodied people in the paralympics, just as you are all for biological males in women's sports?

theflushedzebra Thu 28-Nov-19 13:34:27

grin

titchy Thu 28-Nov-19 13:35:30

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 28-Nov-19 13:52:51

Anyone else getting lots of More Than insurance ads on here now?

Scapegoatforlife Thu 28-Nov-19 13:53:27

A company can choose to support who ever they like . You're obviously not the audience they want to get business from so move it.

Akire Thu 28-Nov-19 13:55:23

Great email Snorkers, well done.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 28-Nov-19 14:01:28

Companies support who they think their customers will like. They are the ones who have miscalled their audience.

An ad not hitting the target audience is like using Jazz in ads when they know their customer base are classical music lovers (although Chanel did use Jazz in their ads yonks ago to scare away the customers that they deemed 'undesirable' and damaging to the brand).

The company sells insurance and policies and has no need to jump the rainbow, especially when they realise that itis a hot issue. I suspect they have had training in a bid to get onboard younger policyholders who will need to have home/car insurance, pensions, life assurance etc (thereby hopefully getting a lifetime of custom).

They didn't think that they would piss a lot of people off - and these people are generally those who are household purse-string holders, who are also often responsible for getting car insurance for little Timmy when he passes his driving test.

Akire Thu 28-Nov-19 14:11:50

You could almost forgive them for enthusiasm and not understanding the problem to women’s sport, but to be all over Fetish’s with same Zeal that’s not accidental, it almost has to be a wide up. But it’s not confused

VaggieMight Thu 28-Nov-19 14:14:25

Now claiming the marketing team was pissed. I see a lessons learned session starting on Monday.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain Thu 28-Nov-19 14:19:41

Gosh that's a diverse staff 'man'-ning their Twitter.

You don't have to have a beard to work here. But it helps if you do.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain Thu 28-Nov-19 14:21:27

OMG. That 'sorry we are drunk in charge of the tweets' is amazing.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Thu 28-Nov-19 14:22:53

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theflushedzebra Thu 28-Nov-19 14:24:40

Ooh my.

"A heavy night" eh, Aviva. FFS, read the room hmm

theflushedzebra Thu 28-Nov-19 14:28:22

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MissMarpletheMurderer Thu 28-Nov-19 14:32:00

I'm lost for words. Either support Katie, or apologise for her but to say she had a heavy night? I mean wtaf?

MissMarpletheMurderer Thu 28-Nov-19 14:33:52

@theflushedzebra that's an interesting and diverse picture-I'm sure that reflects Britain in 2019.

UpperLowercaseSymbolNumber Thu 28-Nov-19 14:35:13

Astounding. It’s a shame their AGM isn’t until May. I may just buy a share and go along to ask the board this.

I’m quite serious by the way, buy a share or get a proxy form signed by someone who has one and you can go and ask the board questions at the AGM of any listed company. It is a great way to get issues straight to the top.

theflushedzebra Thu 28-Nov-19 14:36:41

Miss Marple - 100% white, 70% male. All young. Many beards.

How unexpected!

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