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Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

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tryandempathise Wed 27-Nov-19 07:54:20

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

Devereux1 Fri 29-Nov-19 16:54:33

Some of them have embraced it. Eddie Izzard is one. Not that he's old, but he used to call himself a transvestite. I can't imagine he's the only cross-dresser who now calls himself transgender.

I don't get it. He always told live audiences and so on that he was definitely a man, had not any tendency ever to be a woman, he considered himself a very masculine man, wanted everyone to see him as a man, but his cross dressing was just that - he enjoyed wearing women's clothing and didn't think they should only be worn by women.

Now he's saying he thinks he's a woman?

Datun Fri 29-Nov-19 18:03:02

Now he's saying he thinks he's a woman?

He is. Apparently he has some girl genes. Who knew?

I don't know about anyone else, but it makes me look at someone who says things like that with utter contempt. Get your rocks off to whatever you like, love, but don't try and call it anything else. Especially to the women who you now say you are.

Apart from anything else, how can he possibly reconcile the two opposing points of view that he has held? Without looking like an idiot at best or a user at worst.

Devereux1 Fri 29-Nov-19 18:14:05

Izzard also told live audiences that he felt it was very important to make the distinction between a cross dresser/transvestite, and a transsexual. These were the terms used back then.

He said it really pissed him off if people thought he was feminine, thought he was gay, thought he wanted to be a woman, and thought he either had or wanted a sex change, because he was all male.

At which hour on which day did Eddie Izzard suddenly turn all his beliefs on their head and believe he was a woman? Anyone know?

NonnyMouse1337 Fri 29-Nov-19 18:14:33

I had quite a bit of respect for Eddie Izzard. Appreciated him being open about enjoying wearing women's clothing and seemed secure in himself as a man. Not any more now that he's peddling the rubbish that his proclivities somehow mean he's got some womanly essence.

Fallingirl Fri 29-Nov-19 18:24:25

Had Izzard been a woman in Izzards past, it is highly unlikely anyone would have heard of Izzard.

Datun Fri 29-Nov-19 18:26:23

He said it really pissed him off if people thought he was feminine, thought he was gay, thought he wanted to be a woman, and thought he either had or wanted a sex change, because he was all male.

It's all political, isn't it? He has seen how this is going. The oppression points you can learn, the shutting down a debate that you can generate, the power you can wield.

Like I said. Contemptuous.

And, unfortunately for Izzard, utterly transparent.

Datun Fri 29-Nov-19 18:27:13

Actually, I think I mean contemptible. I am contemptuous. He is - well you get the picture...

TinselAngel Fri 29-Nov-19 18:28:39

At least Izzard isn't married to a woman, (judging by Wikipedia).

Mummyoflittledragon Fri 29-Nov-19 18:57:53

I used to have a lot of respect for him / her too. I’d say he / she is both Datun. Contemptible. Contemptuous of natal woman.

FloralBunting Fri 29-Nov-19 19:05:28

Yes, I used to like Izzard a lot for the refreshing honesty and non conformity. For some unknown reason I associated that with empathy and warmth and lack of aggressive ego.

It was very sad to realize I'd been taken in by a fake persona, because he wasn't bravely unconforming at all, he was always just an attention seeker wearing a costume, and as soon as it became apparent it wouldn't get him much attention anymore, he adopted this new persona with some judicious retconning of his past, so he could get some of the Trans action and raise his ailing profile again, after his forays into politics didn't take off.

We still say Cake or Death multiple times during a week, though.

allmywhat Fri 29-Nov-19 19:39:59

He said it really pissed him off if people thought he was feminine, thought he was gay, thought he wanted to be a woman, and thought he either had or wanted a sex change, because he was all male.

I think it's interesting that a lot of these AGPs have such a streak of homophobia. Am used to the vindictiveness towards lesbians but many of them seem very keen to not be mistaken for gay men/"heterosexual transwomen."

It used to be that AGPs desperately wanted to be seen that way and would lie about their life stories to make themselves sound like HSTS transsexuals. I'm sure many of them still do want that. But I think I've seen this aggressiveness about not being gay/being "lesbian" around a few times lately.

Is some kind of narrative shift happening that's about to push old school transsexuals even further out of the trans movement?

EmpressLesbianInChair Fri 29-Nov-19 20:04:43

I used to have a lot of respect for him / her too. I’d say he / she is both Datun. Contemptible. Contemptuous of natal woman.

Oh, me too. When a man starts claiming that he must have girl genes because he likes heels, nail polish etc, he sounds like a sexist wanker.

ScapaFlo Fri 29-Nov-19 20:07:49

I love Izzard. If you use him as an example, people unused to this topic get it straight away and leave the foothills, if you know what I'm saying wink

SophoclesTheFox Fri 29-Nov-19 20:13:40

I used to love Izzard back in the Action Transvestite days, poking badgers with a spoon. Went to see him a couple of times, joined him on his big marathon run thingy and crushed on him a bit, to be honest.

Then the first time he came out with that Boy Genes, Girl Genes crap, I was like “mate, you’re a fifty something year old man, you’re decades away from boyhood or girlhood for that matter”. Then the whole yeah, that happened with the vile teenage bigot girls scaring him out of the women’s loos stories and I was entirely over him.

pP is right, it is now and always was about the attention.

TinselAngel Fri 29-Nov-19 20:21:02

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3140981-When-did-Eddie-Izzard-become-such-a-huge-knob-head

TheProdigalKittensReturn Fri 29-Nov-19 20:47:44

What Izzard was doing before was a challenge to society, in his own little way. What he's doing now most definitely is not. Given the story about frightening a group of teenage girls in the loos and how proudly that was recounted I've sadly been forced to conclude that the current version must have been the real him all along.

LangCleg Fri 29-Nov-19 21:43:02

Given the story about frightening a group of teenage girls in the loos and how proudly that was recounted I've sadly been forced to conclude that the current version must have been the real him all along.

Moi aussi. Even before his magical girl genes appeared, he saw fit to cast himself as the victim in that in his autobiography.

HumberHellraiser Sat 30-Nov-19 09:06:10

EI was a man who liked to dress. To challenge society and assumptions about how men should be. Fantastic.

Now he conforms to the stereotypes society expects and he challenges women and girls in their spaces instead.

Net result is guest appearances on travel shows, book comes out and keeps in with the new ‘in crowd’.

Inebriati Sat 30-Nov-19 09:45:38

When a man starts claiming that he must have girl genes because he likes heels, nail polish etc then I assume he reads Ben Shapiro.

DuMondeB Sat 30-Nov-19 11:27:21

Izzard knows he is a man - he just wants to get on one of those, sweet, sweet Labour All Women Shortlists, and become the first first Trans MP.

Funnily enough, one of the Brexit Party candidates is trans. How angry would Izzard, Peto, Madigan et al be if a Brexit candidate got there first?

😂

SophoclesTheFox Sat 30-Nov-19 12:51:35

How angry would Izzard, Peto, Madigan et al be if a Brexit candidate got there first?

That would be so beautiful. Oh please, let the first trans MP be in the Brexit party! It’d be wokemageddon 😬

Purpleartichoke Sat 30-Nov-19 15:24:44

I support the right of every individual to express themselves in ways that do not conform to traditional gender norms. These are challenges that can impact anyone, including, but not limited to transgender identifying individuals.

I will also fight to protect sex based protections for members of the reproductive class of humans that gestate young. Biology makes those individuals more likely to be sexually assaulted. they may face particular challenges related to menstruation that can have societal and economic impacts. They may also face economic challenges and career interruptions due to the fact that our species needs a them to carry and nourish the next generation of humans. These are challenges that are only faced by biological women.

Justhadathought Mon 02-Dec-19 09:26:27

The crux of this matter is that transgender ideology is like a religion: an article of faith - for the simple reason it has no foundation in material reality. It is all about 'essences' and feelings. It first of all requires the belief that there is such a thing as an innate and unchanging 'gender identity', and that it is possible to find your identity/self in the 'wrong body'.

You either believe all of the above, or you don't. And if you do believe in, or accept, one part of this belief system, then it follows you must believe, and accept, all the other parts...which then leads to inevitable conclusions such as having to 'identify trans kids early' on to save unnecessary suffering.

This is what happens when individual feelings and mental health issues, rather than absolute material realities take centre stage when deciding policy or practice for everyone. It is political correctness gone insane. And in order to enforce this belief system on everyone - speech, thoughts, everything has to be tightly controlled. Utterly totalitarian.

Transgenderism is the apotheosis of identity politics...and has arisen out of a, largely, American culture of individualistic consumerism and post modern thinking. I'm not buying it.

HorseWithNoFucksToGive Mon 02-Dec-19 10:16:50

Just. I'm not buying it either. Excellent post.

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